Mr. Religion and His Calvinistic Nonsense

[balut55]

Religion has erred in "hanging their hats"on a specific doctrine. Religious pride sets each religion apart. Jesus is the common denominator that gets lost in doctrine. It's time to "come out of her" and go on your own and other Christians. Pope Francis will take over all religion as it is aligned with the state. Religion is protected by the beast for the beast.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Nihilo]

Unlike God, you can't see into the hearts of men....that's where faith is found.

The evidence is "believe in your heart". You'll find that all throughout the Bible.

I'm just reading what's written there. The sentence says that faith is "the evidence of things not seen," so it must mean that faith itself is seen, otherwise you have something not seen, as evidence for things not seen, which renders the sentence meaningless. What does faith look like?

 

[Nihilo]

Your imagination is running wild!

"Faith" is the evidence of things not seen. The verse does not even hint that "faith must not be among 'things not seen'" so therfore we can see faith.

That makes no sense!

Well I think it does make sense, and good sense at that. Why would anybody write a sentence about the evidence for things not seen, and provide as that evidence, something itself that is not seen?

That, makes no sense.

 

[Tambora]

...as is the doctrine of you do not have to obey Jesus.

... as is the doctrine that we must obey EVERYTHING that Jesus says.

We have to obey everything that Jesus says.

Still a lie, GT.

 

[Crucible]

I mean, if you can't take it from Spurgeon, than a proper Christian really has to be hardpressed to call you the same lain:
It's just one of those things that 'wow' Calvinists- they way you all talk about it like it's some wicked thing.

 

[Samie]

Samie continues to post "False Doctrine." Why does Samie feel obligated to do that? I wonder?

Because it is not false. Show that it is. I challenge you. You won't and you can't.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Because it is not false. Show that it is. I challenge you. You won't and you can't.

What you said here is clearly false:

You asked me if I want to argue whether a person can be saved prior to believing. I answered Yes.

If you are right then Paul was in error in the way he answered the following question:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

According to Paul salvation comes as a result of believing.

According to you salvation comes prior to believing.

You will never convince me that Paul is wrong and you are right.

Let's see if any of the Calvinits on this thread will defend your idea. Too bad Mr. Religion is not here to defend you.

 

[john w]

On another thread Mr. Religion said the following:


"Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
Faith is evidence you are saved, it is not the cause of your salvation, for God alone is the cause."

Calvinism is a subtil form of works-based "salvation," despite any protests to the contrary.


How much evidence is needed to be observed, by others, to be able to say, "Yep, he/she is saved."?

Calvinist: Well, uh, urr, you see.....Only God knows...


So much for "assurance," to which the book testifies.

 

[john w]

The Church in Scripture is not "a church," she is the Church, and she did survive the Apostles and the period in which the New Testament was written. Before the idea that there could be more than One Church ever entered anybody's head, there was One Church, as shown in the Scripture.

And yes, the Trinity is taught and presumed in the Scripture; there, we certainly agree.

Fallible, respective members of the boc are the church, in this dispensation.

 

[john w]

The scriptures are for the elect.

1. "the elect," according to Calvinism, is to salvation. No scripture testifies to that. Scripturally, "the elect" pertains to service. The Lord Jesus Christ was "elect."

2. Prove that you are one of "the elect," and thus that the scriptures are for you, Clavinist.

 

[God's Truth]

... as is the doctrine that we must obey EVERYTHING that Jesus says.



Still a lie, GT.

We have to obey everything that Jesus commands.

You do not know what Jesus commands?

Search it out, for that is what searching for God is all about.

Amen.

 

[God's Truth]

I mean, if you can't take it from Spurgeon, than a proper Christian really has to be hardpressed to call you the same lain:
It's just one of those things that 'wow' Calvinists- they way you all talk about it like it's some wicked thing.

Catholics and Lutherans, and Calvinists are all in falseness.

 

[Samie]

Let's see if any of the Calvinits on this thread will defend your idea. Too bad Mr. Religion is not here to defend you.

AMR is not interested in your NONSENSE. I have already proven your false doctrine, Jerry. Here again:

As far as this thread goes, no one attempted to refute my position that people are born already in Christ, and hence In Christ FIRST AND FOREMOST before they can believe.

If it is true that people has to first believe before he can be saved, as Jerry and most others teach, then people can NEVER be saved.

If one is NOT yet saved, he is not yet in Christ. If he is not yet in Christ, he cannot bear fruit. If he cannot bear fruit, then he has yet no faith because faith is fruit of the Spirit. If he has no faith, then he cannot believe. And if he cannot believe, he cannot be saved according to Jerry's doctrine.

Jerry tried to counter by quoting Rom 10:17 that faith comes by hearing the word of God. So, unless one hears he cannot have faith he can use to believe. What comes first being in Christ or hearing?

The Bible says that Christ is our life. If one is not in Christ, he is spiritually dead. If one is spiritually dead, he cannot hear spiritual things. If he cannot hear then he cannot have faith. And we are back to square one.

People need to be in Christ FIRST and FOREMOST so he can hear, then have faith, and then believe. And to be in Christ is to be saved. So saved first before one can believe.

But Jerry wants the cart before the horse.

He quotes Paul's statement to the jailer that he will be saved if he believes. And Paul was correct, of course. It was Jerry's understanding that was wrong.

Paul was correct that people will be saved if they believe.

will be saved is FUTURE tense, NOT Past Tense. People are born already saved, this is PAST tense. And for people to benefit from the FUTURE Tense will be saved , they have to overcome the evil of UNBELIEF by overcoming it. People overcome the evil of UNBELIEF when they BELIEVE. They can believe because they have faith, being in Christ.

If they refuse to believe, then they are not overcomers and Christ will blot their names from the book of life and they will end up in the lake of fire.​

Scriptures make clear that to be in Christ precedes believing, that is, saved first before one can believe.

Again, I CHALLENGE you to disprove point by point what I posted. And as usual, You can't and you won't.

 

[john w]

The Elect are those who are quickened by the Gospel.

:

"quickened"-zapped by the Holy Spirit, "regenerated,"in order to be able to believe, according to Calvinists.

So, if you are already regenerated, "zapped," quickened, you are already saved, and Calvinism's God/"god" is an idiot, like them, for constantly encouraging/demanding belief in "the Gospel." For what reason? They are already saved.

Calvinist: Well, uh, urr, you just don't understand Calvinism,you see, well, uh, urr.....

 

[Crucible]

Calvinist: Well (..) you just don't understand Calvinism

Exactly

The fact of the matter is that you all are the epitome of beating a straw man- you take a completely warped version of Calvinism and demand Calvinists to defend it :chuckle:

Theologically speaking, you're all completely and utterly fruitless. That's just something I have gathered by observing how you and your buddies go about pretty much any subject of theology.

I can use my theology to actually deduce and measure accounts of scripture- that is the point of having a proper theology. You all do not have one, and so every verse you interpret tends to just be arbitrary and no wisdom is gained from it.

 

[Nihilo]

Fallible, respective members of the boc are the church, in this dispensation.

Yup, just as the popes also teach. Grin smilie.

 

[john w]

Nobody 'knows' they are saved.
.

Thanks for your "good news." And you reference "the Gospel?"


As I have argued-Calvinism is no different than Roman Catholicism, as pertaining to salvational issues. Calvinists talk like Catholics-Catholics talk like Calvinists.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

If he has no faith, then he cannot believe.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Co 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Co 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
1Co 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
1Co 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Co 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[Crucible]

Thanks for your "good news." And you reference "the Gospel?"


As I have argued-Calvinism is no different than Roman Catholicism, as pertaining to salvational issues. Calvinists talk like Catholics-Catholics talk like Calvinists.

Maybe it just seems that way because you're plain heretical :chuckle:

 

[john w]

Exactly

The fact of the matter is that you all are the epitome of beating a straw man- you take a completely warped version of Calvinism and demand Calvinists to defend it :chuckle:

Theologically speaking, you're all completely and utterly fruitless. That's just something I have gathered by observing how you and your buddies go about pretty much any subject of theology.

I can use my theology to actually deduce and measure accounts of scripture- that is the point of having a proper theology. You all do not have one, and so every verse you interpret tends to just be arbitrary and no wisdom is gained from it.

As I predicted...

Calvinist: Well, uh, urr, you just don't understand Calvinism,you see, well, uh, urr.....