Madists

jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Tambora said:
Yes, he is.

James 2:10-11 KJV
(10) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Click to expand...

For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. (James 2:10-12)​

This is a different law than the Law of Moses that our Father abolished.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
Are you kidding?!
Abraham is from where CIRUMCISION STARTED!
Click to expand...

I said that Abraham was never under the law and you ask, "Are you kidding?"

Are you not aware that he was never under the law, including the things of the law in regard to ceremonial cleansing? Here is what you said earlier:

God's Truth said:
They tried to establish their OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS AFTER Jesus came MEANS THEY wanted to keep trying to do the purification/ceremonial works to clean themselves, i.e. make themselves righteous, justified, and sanctified before God. THAT MEANS they wanted to keep doing the OLD PURIFICATION works to clean themselves INSTEAD OF believing that Jesus' blood cleans them by just believing it does.
Click to expand...

Let us look at this passage again:

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:1-5).​

The words here which are in "bold" are quoted from Genesis 15:6. That event happened before Abraham was circumcised (Gen.17) so what Paul wrote at Romans 4:1-5 has nothing at all to do with circumcision. Paul says that if a person's justification before God is based on "works" then that justification cannot be described as being of "grace."

Those two things are mutually exclusive!

Your ideas about grace prove that you do not even understand the "gospel of grace" because you say that we cannot be justified or saved by grace unless we do the work of obeying the Lord Jesus. And since you do not understand that gospel you surely cannot believe it.

It is only those who "believe God" who are justified in the eyes of the Lord:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Ro.4:3).​

You are deluding yourself if you actually think you are believing what the Lord says about being justified in His sight by "grace." It is only those who actually believe that gospel who are saved:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

Repent and believe the "gospel of grace." Cease from your ugly business of trying to convince others that no one can be saved apart from works.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
jamie said:
The word "Gentile" was valid in Paul's day, but is no longer valid. Blood line is irrelevant as is circumcision of the flesh for men.
Click to expand...
The point, and you all always seem to miss it, is that while the Lord on earth was Matthew 15:24 KJV, Romans 15:8 KJV, and the 12 apostles were commanded Matthew 10:5-6 KJV, Paul was the apostle OF the Gentiles (Romans 11:13 KJV) and given the dispensation of the grace of God for you Gentiles (like that of the Ephesians to whom he wrote the letter Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV) Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV.

Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
 
C

clefty

New member
jamie said:
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. (James 2:10-12)​

This is a different law than the Law of Moses that our Father abolished.
Click to expand...

What? There is two sets of laws dividing the house?

The old law is abolished? The one His father said was forever and His son said "DON'T think I have come to destroy"?

We may now kill? Steal? commit adultery? worship another god? the same God however we please?

Did John write in revelations "Here are they that don't keep the abolished commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ's version of it"?

Hint: Nope.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
God's Truth said:
Are you a Roman or an Ephesian?
Click to expand...
The Romans were those who knew the law, were keeping it and boasting in it, proselytes, and graffed in before hearing Paul's gospel that would establish them into the one Body so we aren't likened to them, but we are likened to that of the Ephesians who had no hope and were without God in the world because of our alien and stranger status

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Paul was sent to both (Acts 26:17 KJV, Acts 22:21 KJV) as the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:7-8 KJV) and we are in the same one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV, the one new man (Ephesians 2:13-15).
 
C

clefty

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
I said that Abraham was never under the law and you ask, "Are you kidding?"

Are you not aware that he was never under the law, including the things of the law in regard to ceremonial cleansing? Here is what you said earlier:



Let us look at this passage again:

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Ro.4:1-5).​

The words here which are in "bold" are quoted from Genesis 15:6. That event happened before Abraham was circumcised (Gen.17) so what Paul wrote at Romans 4:1-5 has nothing at all to do with circumcision. Paul says that if a person's justification before God is based on "works" then that justification cannot be described as being of "grace."

Those two things are mutually exclusive!

Your ideas about grace prove that you do not even understand the "gospel of grace" because you say that we cannot be justified or saved by grace unless we do the work of obeying the Lord Jesus. And since you do not understand that gospel you surely cannot believe it.

It is only those who "believe God" who are justified in the eyes of the Lord:

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Ro.4:3).​

You are deluding yourself if you actually think you are believing what the Lord says about being justified in His sight by "grace." It is only those who actually believe that gospel who are saved:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

Repent and believe the "gospel of grace." Cease from your ugly business of trying to convince others that no one can be saved apart from works.
Click to expand...

Yup circumcision never saved...neither did the law...never transformed the flesh

It's like asking a flashlight to hammer in the nail...

Wrong tool...

the law was only to point out when we stepped out of HIM HIS WAY...His grace lets us back

Only He can transform the flesh...
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
heir said:
The point, and you all always seem to miss it...
Click to expand...

What would you expect? All of the Twelve were Judeans whereas Paul was a Roman and understood non-Jewish cultures.

Before his conversion Paul was a Jew by religion and a Roman by citizenship.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
clefty said:
What? There is two sets of laws dividing the house?

The old law is abolished? The one His father said was forever and His son said "DON'T think I have come to destroy"?
Click to expand...

The marriage vows were given by Christ before the Law of Moses was given.

You have seen what I did to the Egyptians and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to Myself. Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. (Exodus 19:4-5)​

"If you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant," this is obviously a different covenant than the Mosaic covenant. This is the covenant that Christ spoke to the people, not just Moses.

How do we know?

Then all the people answered together and said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do.” (Exodus 19:8)​

For posterity's sake Christ wrote with his own hand the stipulations of the covenant and had Moses put the covenant in a gold-plated wooden box.

Christ saw the golden calf and did not approve and gave them additional instructions besides the covenant.

Paul explained, "What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions..." (Galatians 3:19)

Was the Law of Moses intended to be on-going?

"Till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made..." (Galatians 3:19)

Do we agree the Seed spoken of with regard to the Abrahamic covenant has come? Or should we look for another?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Tambora said:
What is wrong with you, GT?
I have spent so much time trying to get you to understand what is plainly written and you will have none of it.

Romans 5:18 KJV
(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Have you figured out yet who the one is?
Click to expand...
I've shown her that one MANY times, but she ignores it.
 
Tambora

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Right Divider said:
I've shown her that one MANY times, but she ignores it.
Click to expand...
Yep.
She cannot stand the thought of it being Christ's righteousness alone. She opposes GOD's truth with every fiber of her being.
It burns her up that she cannot EARN her salvation and get the credit for it.

Luckily TOL has plenty of scripture knowledgeable folks to not allow all her many errors to go unnoticed.
TOL is THE BEST, and I'm glad you are here, RD!
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
jamie said:
What would you expect? All of the Twelve were Judeans whereas Paul was a Roman and understood non-Jewish cultures.

Before his conversion Paul was a Jew by religion and a Roman by citizenship.
Click to expand...
Over your head again. What would I expect? I would expect for you and others who take issue with Matthew 15:24 KJV and Romans 15:8 KJV to drop it and take that sending and purpose at face value believing them. I would expect of those who have spent any time at all studying the Bible to recognize that the twelve apostles were commanded Matthew 10:5-6 KJV and after the second coming Matthew 28:19-20 KJV and that there is no way for Gentiles in this age to be saved apart from God sending an apostle of the Gentiles with a mystery gospel and doctrine to a mystery inheritance far above all heavens!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top