Limiting the Death of Christ

[Right Divider]

Im not dodging that scripture, Im in 100 % agreement with it. Now do you believe that there are people Christ died for, shed His Blood for and yet they will not be saved ? Yes or No?

1Jn 2:1-2 KJV My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[Right Divider]

Plus you flat out deny that men are saved by His death/blood which contradicts Rom 5:9

⁹ Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 5:10 KJV For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[OZOS]

Wrong ! Believing is a work [ergon] of the mind.

Well, then, according to you, you believe in salvation by works.

However, the apostle Paul destroys your stupid theory.

"But to him that worketh not, BUT believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Rom 4:5

 

[OZOS]

How were they Justified according to Rom 5:9 ? Is a Justified person the same as a saved person ?

ALL men have been justified by His blood to receive His life. Not everyone has His life (example: you).
Only those who have heard the Gospel, and have believed what they have heard, receive His life and are saved.
YOU refuse His gift of life, claiming that it a "work" to receive it.
It is His life that saves.
YOU teach salvation by works.

 

[Bradley D]

This sounds like you believe that man's doing is what saves him and not Christ doing. That limits Christ death. In and of itself it saves no one according to your testimony.

That is what Christ's sacrifice should make us want to do.

 

[Bradley D]

You have a works based gospel.

That should all come from the heart.

 

[beloved57]

I know that verse, I quote it all the time. How were they reconciled to God ?

 

[beloved57]

That is what Christ's sacrifice should make us want to do.

So you admit that Christs death doesnt in and of itself save anyone ?

 

[beloved57]

ALL men have been justified by His blood to receive His life. Not everyone has His life (example: you).
Only those who have heard the Gospel, and have believed what they have heard, receive His life and are saved.
YOU refuse His gift of life, claiming that it a "work" to receive it.
It is His life that saves.
YOU teach salvation by works.

All men have not been Justified by His Blood, thats the false teaching of universalism. A Justified person shall live by Faith, which all men do not !

 

[beloved57]

Well, then, according to you, you believe in salvation by works.

However, the apostle Paul destroys your stupid theory.

"But to him that worketh not, BUT believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Rom 4:5

You believe in Salvation by works, by an act a person does.

 

[OZOS]

All men have not been Justified by His Blood

LOL. The apostle Paul, disagrees with you and Calvin. You simply don't understand the difference between justification and salvation. The universalist would claim that all men are saved, whether they believe or not. That is false. The only difference between a Calvinist and a Universalist is in how they define the word "ALL". Both groups err by claiming that men are saved by His death. That is the "blasphemy" which you both share.

A Justified person shall live by Faith, which all men do not !

Again, you are confused about justification and salvation. His shed blood (death) justifies all men to receive His life. The Bible says so, but you don't understand the Bible.

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Rom 5:18

Unless you want to claim that ONLY the "elect" are condemned, then you have created quite a conundrum. Paul says that the same ALL who are condemned are the same ALL who have the justification of life. Thus, Jesus died for ALL MEN, not "some men". His death justifies ALL MEN to receive that which saves - His life. We are saved by His life, having believed the Gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4).

 

[OZOS]

You believe in Salvation by works, by an act a person does.

You think that repeating the same lie over and over will somehow convince people that you are sane? Well, you are not of sound mind or heart. Belief is not a "work". The apostle Paul says so, but you hate the apostle Paul, just as Calvin did.

"But to him that worketh not, BUT believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"

Paul says that believing is NOT a work. You claim it is. I believe Paul, and not you. You are not to be believed, for you reject the Gospel which saves.
You, just like Calvin, deny that Jesus died for OUR sins (The Gospel). You claim that He only died for YOUR sins. That is a false gospel that saves no one.
The apostle Paul says that you are to be accursed.

 

[OZOS]

That should all come from the heart.

What should "come from the heart"?

 

[beloved57]

LOL. The apostle Paul, disagrees with you and Calvin. You simply don't understand the difference between justification and salvation. The universalist would claim that all men are saved, whether they believe or not. That is false. The only difference between a Calvinist and a Universalist is in how they define the word "ALL". Both groups err by claiming that men are saved by His death. That is the "blasphemy" which you both share. Again, you are confused about justification and salvation. His shed blood (death) justifies all men to receive His life. The Bible says so, but you don't understand the Bible.

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Rom 5:18

Unless you want to claim that ONLY the "elect" are condemned, then you have created quite a conundrum. Paul says that the same ALL who are condemned are the same ALL who have the justification of life. Thus, Jesus died for ALL MEN, not "some men". His death justifies ALL MEN to receive that which saves - His life. We are saved by His life, having believed the Gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4).

To Say all men have been Justified is a false gospel. A Justified person isnt a lost person, you know that dont you ?

 

[beloved57]

You think that repeating the same lie over and over will somehow convince people that you are sane? Well, you are not of sound mind or heart. Belief is not a "work". The apostle Paul says so, but you hate the apostle Paul, just as Calvin did.

"But to him that worketh not, BUT believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"

Paul says that believing is NOT a work. You claim it is. I believe Paul, and not you. You are not to be believed, for you reject the Gospel which saves.
You, just like Calvin, deny that Jesus died for OUR sins (The Gospel). You claim that He only died for YOUR sins. That is a false gospel that saves no one.
The apostle Paul says that you are to be accursed.

Paul never said believing isnt a work. It is a work, its something done by the person.

 

[beloved57]

You think that repeating the same lie over and over will somehow convince people that you are sane? Well, you are not of sound mind or heart. Belief is not a "work". The apostle Paul says so, but you hate the apostle Paul, just as Calvin did.

"But to him that worketh not, BUT believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"

Paul says that believing is NOT a work. You claim it is. I believe Paul, and not you. You are not to be believed, for you reject the Gospel which saves.
You, just like Calvin, deny that Jesus died for OUR sins (The Gospel). You claim that He only died for YOUR sins. That is a false gospel that saves no one.
The apostle Paul says that you are to be accursed.

Not Paul, but you teach the false gospel of salvation by works,, by what a person does !

 

[OZOS]

Paul never said believing isnt a work. It is a work, its something done by the person.

LOL, you are either blind or willfully ignorant. Paul said that belief is not a work. He says it in this verse...

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"

Perhaps another translation will open your eyes.

"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness"

Paul contrasts one from the other. Either you work or you believe. They are not cohesive.

You need a basic education on language and terms before you take on the task of debate. You are failing miserably. LOL

 

[Bradley D]

So you admit that Christs death doesnt in and of itself save anyone ?

Christ's sacrfice saves those who recognize their sin/repent believe in Christ/Faith and give themselves to Him. Have you given yourself to Christ?

 

[Right Divider]

I know that verse, I quote it all the time. How were they reconciled to God ?

Reconciled by His death... not saved by His death.

Rom 5:10 KJV For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Just as John says that Christ's death was a propitiation for ALL, Paul says God was reconciling the WORLD to Himself by Christ's death.

1Jn 2:2 KJV And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2Co 5:19 KJV To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

And yet you cling to your fairy tale.

 

[beloved57]

LOL, you are either blind or willfully ignorant. Paul said that belief is not a work. He says it in this verse...

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness"

Perhaps another translation will open your eyes.

"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness"

Paul contrasts one from the other. Either you work or you believe. They are not cohesive.

You need a basic education on language and terms before you take on the task of debate. You are failing miserably. LOL

There is not one verse Paul writes " believing is not a work" He may contrast them, but he never said believing isnt a work.