Limiting the Death of Christ

[OZOS]

You said man is saved by his act of receiving. Isnt that something a person does?

No, it's not. It is something that God does. God gives the Spirit to those who believe the Gospel. Men receive it because God gives it. They do not "work" to receive it. It is a gift of life. "It is the Spirit that gives life" John 6:63 Not everyone receives His life, because not everyone believes the Gospel that Jesus died for their sins and was raised for their justification. The Bible is quite clear HOW men are saved and what it is that saves them. It is NOT His death, but His life.

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." Rom 5:8-10

This is the crux of soteriology which John Calvin failed to comprehend, and which his followers remain in the dark, concerning the truth of today. I'm trying to help you come to the knowledge of the truth, but you appear unwilling, and too proud to hear.

Plus you flat out deny that men are saved by His death/blood which contradicts Rom 5:9

LO, no, not at at all. You simply cannot comprehend what is written.

We are justified by His blood so that we can receive His life.

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Rom 5:18

His blood justifies ALL men to receive His life. ALL those who believe receive His life. You adopt Calvin's false view of justification, and therefore you wander in the dark, lost, and without hope.

 

[Bradley D]

I know what that verse says. However if you believe that there are people Christ died for that wind up lost, you limit His death in its effects. Thats not good

Christ's death forgives all sins to those who have faith, repent, and amend their lives.

 

[beloved57]

No, it's not. It is something that God does. God gives the Spirit to those who believe the Gospel. Men receive it because God gives it. They do not "work" to receive it. It is a gift of life. "It is the Spirit that gives life" John 6:63 Not everyone receives His life, because not everyone believes the Gospel that Jesus died for their sins and was raised for their justification. The Bible is quite clear HOW men are saved and what it is that saves them. It is NOT His death, but His life.

"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life." Rom 5:8-10

This is the crux of soteriology which John Calvin failed to comprehend, and which his followers remain in the dark, concerning the truth of today. I'm trying to help you come to the knowledge of the truth, but you appear unwilling, and too proud to hear.



LO, no, not at at all. You simply cannot comprehend what is written.

We are justified by His blood so that we can receive His life.

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Rom 5:18

His blood justifies ALL men to receive His life. ALL those who believe receive His life. You adopt Calvin's false view of justification, and therefore you wander in the dark, lost, and without hope.

All double talk. If you believe that people Christ died for shall be lost regardless, you limit His Death. You don't believe it saves!

 

[beloved57]

Christ's death forgives all sins to those who have faith, repent, and amend their lives.

This sounds like you believe that man's doing is what saves him and not Christ doing. That limits Christ death. In and of itself it saves no one according to your testimony.

 

[OZOS]

All double talk.9/quote]No, you are just double-minded, and do not believe God's word concerning the Gospel. You mock God, not me.

If you believe that people Christ died for shall be lost regardless, you limit His Death. You don't believe it saves!

His death does not save. The Bible does not teach that. Your faith is in Calvin, not in the Lord Jesus Christ. Like Calvin, you have never believed the Gospel.

The Apostle Paul makes it quite clear that the Holy Spirit is given by God to those who trust in Christ AFTER hearing the Gospel and believing it.

^"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Eph 1:13

Again, the Bible (which you reject, as did Calvin), firmly testifies to the fact that "it is the Spirit that gives life" (John 6:63), and that Jesus came to give us His life (John 10:10)

"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself" John 5:26

"But these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name" John 20:31

"And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." John 5:11-12

"For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

Your pride and arrogance prevents you from receiving the grace of God, because you have CHOSEN to follow a man, rather than believe the Gospel that saves.

 

[OZOS]

Christ's death forgives all sins to those who have faith, repent, and amend their lives.

You have a works based gospel.

 

[beloved57]

ozos

His death does not save.

Thats false and its blasphemy. How were these Justified Rom 5:9

How were these reconciled to God ? Rom 5:10

 

[beloved57]

You have a works based gospel.

The kettle calling the pot black !

 

[OZOS]

ozos


Thats false and its blasphemy.

It's neither. Again, you pervert the word of God, because you do not have the capacity to understand what is clearly written. You lack the Spirit of God who dwells in those who have believed the Gospel, and you never have.

How were these Justified Rom 5:9

Already explained.

How were these reconciled to God ? Rom 5:10[/QUOTE]Already explained.

Jesus died for our sins (Calvin denied this, as do you). His death was not for our salvation, it was for our sins, so that those who believe He died for our sins are saved by receiving His life.

You are deceived, without Christ, without His life, and without hope. The only words you will hear from the Lord Jesus Christ are "I never knew you".

 

[beloved57]

It's neither. Again, you pervert the word of God, because you do not have the capacity to understand what is clearly written. You lack the Spirit of God who dwells in those who have believed the Gospel, and you never have.

Already explained.

How were these reconciled to God ? Rom 5:10

Already explained.

Jesus died for our sins (Calvin denied this, as do you). His death was not for our salvation, it was for our sins, so that those who believe He died for our sins are saved by receiving His life.

You are deceived, without Christ, without His life, and without hope. The only words you will hear from the Lord Jesus Christ are "I never knew you".

[/QUOTE]

You mean already denied and evaded. How were they Justified according to Rom 5:9

⁹ Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

How were they reconciled to God here ? By what means Rom 5:10

¹⁰ For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[OZOS]

The kettle calling the pot black !

Nope, you are simply blind to the truth of the Gospel, as is Bradley. He adds works, which I never have. Believing is not a work. "Amending your life" is a work. I have said no such thing. You are dishonest. A liar. A slanderer. And a false teacher, with a false gospel that can save no one.

 

[beloved57]

Nope, you are simply blind to the truth of the Gospel, as is Bradley. He adds works, which I never have. Believing is not a work. "Amending your life" is a work. I have said no such thing. You are dishonest. A liar. A slanderer. And a false teacher, with a false gospel that can save no one.

You teach works salvation, since you deny the saving efficacy of Christs Blood/Death. How were they Justified, made righteous before God according to Rom 5:9 ?

 

[OZOS]

How were they Justified according to Rom 5:9

⁹ Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

"Justified to receive His life. The sin issue was settled at the cross for ALL men. Again, you need to read the WHOLE Bible.

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Rom 5:18

ALL MEN have been justified by His blood to receive His life. His "once for ALL" sacrifice justifies ALL MEN to receive His life, which is given to those who believe the Gospel. You do not believe the Gospel.

How were they reconciled to God here ? By what means Rom 5:10

¹⁰ For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

"MUCH MORE". Reconciliation is the removal of the debt. Salvation is the receiving of His life. Paul just said so. You reject Paul's words. You reject the Gospel.

 

[Nanja]

Understand something,

Those who teach that Christ died for all men without exception, and yet, all men without exception will not be saved, they do limit the death of Christ in a horrible way. They limit the efficacious power of it. They testify thereby that the death of Christ in and of itself doesn't in fact, save anyone.Now sound Gospel teachers see where the scripture teaches the limit of the extent of Christs death, limiting it to His Sheep, but they limit not the efficacious saving quality of His Death.

Exactly Brother, they limit the efficacious power of the death of Christ with their ungodly concept, that Christ's Death only makes the remedy of sin, including unbelief, a possibility; requiring the sinner's cooperation, i.e. their believing, repenting; or His waiting to see who would accept it. But One can Know and be Convinced that the Efficaciousness of Christ's Death was on their behalf because it Effects them personally, by being given a New Spiritual Life unto God in New Birth.

 

[Nanja]

Nope, you are simply blind to the truth of the Gospel, as is Bradley. He adds works, which I never have. Believing is not a work. "Amending your life" is a work. I have said no such thing. You are dishonest. A liar. A slanderer. And a false teacher, with a false gospel that can save no one.

Wrong ! Believing is a work [ergon] of the mind.

G2041: ergon

1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasized in opp. to that which is less than work

 

[beloved57]

"Justified to receive His life. The sin issue was settled at the cross for ALL men. Again, you need to read the WHOLE Bible.

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Rom 5:18

ALL MEN have been justified by His blood to receive His life. His "once for ALL" sacrifice justifies ALL MEN to receive His life, which is given to those who believe the Gospel. You do not believe the Gospel.


"MUCH MORE". Reconciliation is the removal of the debt. Salvation is the receiving of His life. Paul just said so. You reject Paul's words. You reject the Gospel.

How were they Justified according to Rom 5:9 ? Is a Justified person the same as a saved person ?

 

[beloved57]

Exactly Brother, they limit the efficacious power of the death of Christ with their ungodly concept, that Christ's Death only makes the remedy of sin, including unbelief, a possibility; requiring the sinner's cooperation, i.e. their believing, repenting; or His waiting to see who would accept it. But One can Know and be Convinced that the Efficaciousness of Christ's Death was on their behalf because it Effects them personally, by being given a New Spiritual Life unto God in New Birth.

Amen, all for whom Christ died shall be given spiritual life by His Spirit.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Wrong ! Believing is a work [ergon] of the mind.

G2041: ergon

1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasized in opp. to that which is less than work

Even if it were, God would still get 100% of the credit for giving the gift of salvation. The person accepting a gift doesn't get any of the credit for the giving of the gift, so your point is moot.

God gave the free gift of salvation to ALL who believe. If a person does or does not believe (ie, accepting the free gift), God still gets the credit for providing the gift in the first place.

 

[Right Divider]

Don't dodge the question !

Don't try to dodge the scripture:

1Jn 2:1-2 KJV My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[beloved57]

Don't try to dodge the scripture:

Im not dodging that scripture, Im in 100 % agreement with it. Now do you believe that there are people Christ died for, shed His Blood for and yet they will not be saved ? Yes or No?