way 2 go
Well-known member
Eph_2:1 In the past you were spiritually dead because of your sins and the things you did against God.
Eph_2:1 In the past you were spiritually dead because of your sins and the things you did against God.
Aimiel
Well-known member
The problem is: you discard anything that doesn't agree with your pet theology. That's why you find all your false gods so interesting. If you don't believe Scripture, you'll swallow anything that 'seems' good. There is only One God and Jesus represents Him to us. Since you don't eat His Flesh or drink His Blood, you have no life in you.
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
The eternal destiny of those with no life in them is the Lake of Fire.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
All those who are apart from Christ will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire to be tormented for eternity.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
There will be a resurrection from death. These babies will not be tortured alive in hell forever and ever.
I don't know what you are trying to say. Are you attempting to insult me by calling me a new ager? Are you saying that since I believe what the Bible says, that means I am a new ager? Are you saying that you are not a Muslism, you are something more than a new ager? In your attempt to cloud what the Bible says, you are making yourself unclear as well. Please explain what you mean. If you think that I am a new ager, you are incorrect. I am a Bible Believing Christian.
This doesn't say that death is separation from God. Sorry.
Since David was in "Hell", you can easily see that "Hell" is not "separation from God" as you falsely claim.
You keep repeating the same thing and you never offer any proof.
What is "to forms of dead in let the dead bury their dead"?
Do you mean "two forms of dead"? The verse doesn't say that.
Jesus never said "spiritual separation from God will be forever", so your claim that Jesus agrees with you is a lie. I believe that the unrepentant will perish, and Jesus and I agree that the unrepentant will perish, because Jesus said in Luke 13:3 that "unless you repent, you will likewise perish".
That's not true. Atheists don't believe in God, and I do. Atheists don't believe that Christians will be resurrected and will have eternal life, and I do. Your statement that I agree with atheists is a lie.
Why is that? They believe in the same hell you believe in. You should get together with them and study all about eternal torture in hell in the Koran.
I haven't got the definition of death wrong. I just don't include "eternal life" as one of the definitions of death as you do. As long as you hold onto your definition of death as "the complete opposite of death", you will remain confused and unable to understand the Bible. Why don't you go all the way and become a Muslim?
I'm sorry, but once again you are reading "spiritually dead" INTO the passage. John 6:63 doesn't say anything about "spiritually dead people". I believe that the Spirit gives life. Christians will be resurrected from death and given eternal life. Those who reject Christ will not be given eternal life. They will perish on the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
This also doesn't say anthing about so called "Spiritually Dead People".
You continue to read YOUR idea into Scripture and your idea is not in Scripture. Concerning these people that Jude is writing about, Jude says in verse 10 that they are destroyed, and in verse 11 that they will perish just as those who walked in Balaam's error and perished in Korah's rebellion.
Why don't you give up your false idea and accept what the Bible says?
Why do you fight me on this? I will never stop believing the Bible in order to follow you in your error.
Ephesians 2:1 doesn't say that.
What weird translation are you using? Does your organization have it's own special translation?
(Are you in a cult?)
Death in scripture is separation from God....annihilationism is plain wrong
The wicked are not annihilated at the last judgement they go away into eternal punishment
The wicked are not annihilated at the last judgement they go away into eternal punishment
Please Totton, Can you show me where in Scripture it says "Death is separation from God"?
I know that your opinion is annihilationism is wrong. But the Scriptures are clear that the wicked will perish, they will be destroyed, and they will be no more. Torturism is the doctrine that is plain wrong.
Totton Linnet,
re: "The wicked are not annihilated at the last judgement they go away into eternal punishment"
Assumptions have to be made about the meaning of certain words. There are no black and white scriptures which absolutely prove everlasting torture or that absolutely prove the everlasting cessation of being. A person has to WANT one or the other to be the case when forming an opinion about the meaning of a word.
Take the words "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 - If you interpret it to mean "everlasting torture" it must be because you want it to mean that since you could just as easily interpret it to mean something else. There is no scripture that proves the "punishment" has to mean torture. Nor is there any scripture that proves that it doesn't.
Strong's gives two definitions for kolasis - punishment and torture. Let's go with the punishment one. Webster's New World Dictionary gives a definition of punishment as : "a penalty imposed on an offender for a crime or wrongdoing". It gives as definitions for "penalty" as "a punishment fixed by law for a crime..." and "any unfortunate consequence or result of an act..."
None of those definitions preclude annhilation as the penalty for unbelievers. Why do you want to go with the eternal torture notion when you don't have to?
If you think that it is fit and proper to torture a person for eternity because during their fleeting few years of life they didn’t or couldn’t meet the supreme being's requirements nor develop or have the potential to develop the right character needed to spend eternity with this supreme being, then you will very likely interpret the word "punishment' to mean torture.
But if you think that a loving supreme being wouldn't go against His nature by eternally torturing a person because they didn’t satisfy certain requirements during a fleeting life time, why wouldn't you rather believe that a loving supreme being will simply wipe the person mercifully out of existence? Who does it benifit to do otherwise?
re: "The wicked are not annihilated at the last judgement they go away into eternal punishment"
Assumptions have to be made about the meaning of certain words. There are no black and white scriptures which absolutely prove everlasting torture or that absolutely prove the everlasting cessation of being. A person has to WANT one or the other to be the case when forming an opinion about the meaning of a word.
Take the words "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 - If you interpret it to mean "everlasting torture" it must be because you want it to mean that since you could just as easily interpret it to mean something else. There is no scripture that proves the "punishment" has to mean torture. Nor is there any scripture that proves that it doesn't.
Strong's gives two definitions for kolasis - punishment and torture. Let's go with the punishment one. Webster's New World Dictionary gives a definition of punishment as : "a penalty imposed on an offender for a crime or wrongdoing". It gives as definitions for "penalty" as "a punishment fixed by law for a crime..." and "any unfortunate consequence or result of an act..."
None of those definitions preclude annhilation as the penalty for unbelievers. Why do you want to go with the eternal torture notion when you don't have to?
If you think that it is fit and proper to torture a person for eternity because during their fleeting few years of life they didn’t or couldn’t meet the supreme being's requirements nor develop or have the potential to develop the right character needed to spend eternity with this supreme being, then you will very likely interpret the word "punishment' to mean torture.
But if you think that a loving supreme being wouldn't go against His nature by eternally torturing a person because they didn’t satisfy certain requirements during a fleeting life time, why wouldn't you rather believe that a loving supreme being will simply wipe the person mercifully out of existence? Who does it benifit to do otherwise?
way 2 go
Well-known member
Eph 2:1 And He has made you alive, who were once dead in trespasses and sins,
spiritually dead
Mat 8:22 But Jesus said to him, Follow Me, and let the dead bury their dead.
spiritually dead
Eph 2:5 (even when we were dead in sins) has made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved),
spiritually dead
1Ti 5:6 But she who lives in self-pleasure has died while living.
spiritually dead
the only way to interpret these verses
is spiritually dead
spiritually dead
Mat 8:22 But Jesus said to him, Follow Me, and let the dead bury their dead.
spiritually dead
Eph 2:5 (even when we were dead in sins) has made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved),
spiritually dead
1Ti 5:6 But she who lives in self-pleasure has died while living.
spiritually dead
the only way to interpret these verses
is spiritually dead
I think you are warped in your mind, something I don't usually say to posters.
YOU say torture, the bible says punishment....I think a soul that has been sated in wickedness is only fit to be punished.
If that is so offensive then let them stop raping and killing children etc
It is monsterous wickedness to take a child who has only ever known love and trust and to brutalize that child, the heart of the person who does it and the heart of the women who procure them is unbelievably black and wicked.
Their best hope is that they can find repentance.
YOU, you are guilty with them for you say "go in peace, it will be well with you"
You say to them that all awaits them is death oblivion...they already believe that anyway, if they believed in hell they would not do what they do.
way 2 go
Well-known member
Luk 16:22 And it happened that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. The rich one also died and was buried.
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
the only way to interpret this is the rich man's spirit
was in hell
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
the only way to interpret this is the rich man's spirit
was in hell
Aimiel
Well-known member
Who says? Weren't those punished by fire sent to hell immediately? Hint: they were. The fire of judgments never expires.
The trouble with interpreting these verses that way is that none of those verses SAY "spiritually dead".
Why don't you post ALL of the verses in the Bible that SAY "spiritually dead" here, and we can discuss them?
Here's a small hint: There aren't any.
Can you explain your thinking, that being completely destroyed is the same thing as "going in peace"? How it is "well with" anyone to be destroyed? How is being destroyed a good thing? Your thinking is wrong.
way 2 go
Well-known member
interpret = to give or provide the meaning of
yes they all interpret spiritually dead
way 2 go
Well-known member
your thinking is wrong
can you explain how someone who no longer exists
can be punished ?
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
and for fun
explain what kind of death is spoken of here
Eph 2:1 And He has made you alive, who were once dead in trespasses and sins,
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way 2 go
Well-known member
my take on the worm that does not die is
conversations like this that will replay in their
minds over and over
their rejections of the truth
:think: