freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
its figurative.......
its figurative.......
Its 'figurative' language. Plus you have different nuances in the original languages that are convoluted somewhat when translated into certain english words such as the whole 'hell' business. No matter the words, there is still the problem and insanity of ECT itself on its principle, morally and philosophically, let alone how that portrays 'God'.
A fixation on eternal torment reflects a sadism in some religious minds of God's sense of justice, but there is no justice in a soul doomed to a state of endless suffering, not while infinite love exists to rescue and restore, since that is love's nature and will. As long as a soul is capable of repentance, there is salvation available.
In this scenario Universalism makes the most sense where love triumphs and the divine will is ultimately victorious. Only if a soul can exhaust its opportunity of repentance and choose death for itself (assuming free will here is sovereign as regards individual destiny)...can we consider annihilation possible, but such a 'death' can be complicated (metaphysically speaking).
Thru it all however we must consider the will of God, the very spirit of life and consciousness that pervades all. Then the very nature of divine love.
A profound discourse on 'The immutable decrees of God and the free agency of man' is here for those interested.
its figurative.......
Its 'figurative' language. Plus you have different nuances in the original languages that are convoluted somewhat when translated into certain english words such as the whole 'hell' business. No matter the words, there is still the problem and insanity of ECT itself on its principle, morally and philosophically, let alone how that portrays 'God'.
A fixation on eternal torment reflects a sadism in some religious minds of God's sense of justice, but there is no justice in a soul doomed to a state of endless suffering, not while infinite love exists to rescue and restore, since that is love's nature and will. As long as a soul is capable of repentance, there is salvation available.
In this scenario Universalism makes the most sense where love triumphs and the divine will is ultimately victorious. Only if a soul can exhaust its opportunity of repentance and choose death for itself (assuming free will here is sovereign as regards individual destiny)...can we consider annihilation possible, but such a 'death' can be complicated (metaphysically speaking).
Thru it all however we must consider the will of God, the very spirit of life and consciousness that pervades all. Then the very nature of divine love.
A profound discourse on 'The immutable decrees of God and the free agency of man' is here for those interested.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
putting 'hell' to rest.......
putting 'hell' to rest.......
Its not contest here, its a matter of seeing the insanity of the traditional concept of hellfire and eternal torment.
See:
THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE
Doctrine of Endless Punishment
BY
THOMAS B. THAYER
putting 'hell' to rest.......
"...no rest day or night..."
/thread
Its not contest here, its a matter of seeing the insanity of the traditional concept of hellfire and eternal torment.
See:
THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE
Doctrine of Endless Punishment
BY
THOMAS B. THAYER
"...no rest day or night..."
/thread
Wow. We are talking about the fate of people here.
Besides "no rest day or night" doesn't help your gleeful torture. That verse is talking about only three entities. The Devil. The Beast. The False Prophet.
According to John 3:16 there are only two options. Perishing or Having Eternal Life. We do not want anyone to perish, so we tell them about Jesus Christ so they can have eternal life.
Please remember that in these discussions we are talking about the fate of real people. Show some respect.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
YES.......why not? There is no reason if a soul is still a conscious entity to believe that the mere transition of dropping the physical body prevents it from making any free choices concerning its condition or destiny. You'll be at an embarrassing loss to prove such,....and the measely few if but one verse usually used to support only one chance during earth-life fails as well.
Look at the evidence....do more research. Did you know most NDEs (near death experiences) do not support the traditional concept of hell, but a more of a universal salvation for all? See here. Dare to discover the truth for yourself. You'll thank the one courageous and honest enough to share it with you.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
proof?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
No sale...........
No sale...........
My original proposition stands....to which you have no evidence to disprove. The passage above does not disprove the ability of any conscious entity being able to change its mind at any point along the course of its existence.
This cannot even be used against the concept of reincarnation as shown here. Multiple judgments can happen along the course of one's life, while the path of eternal progress lies before. Again, divine love offers a provision far beyond the narrow prescriptions of religious dogma.
No sale...........
My original proposition stands....to which you have no evidence to disprove. The passage above does not disprove the ability of any conscious entity being able to change its mind at any point along the course of its existence.
This cannot even be used against the concept of reincarnation as shown here. Multiple judgments can happen along the course of one's life, while the path of eternal progress lies before. Again, divine love offers a provision far beyond the narrow prescriptions of religious dogma.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Men will bow to him now as Savior voluntarily or after death as Judge involuntarily--but they will bow (Ro 14:11).
way 2 go
Well-known member
No
Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
no longer possible to be saved by faith after you die
every one will know that Jesus is God once they are dead
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
yep :thumb:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Conditional immortality.....
Conditional immortality.....
This accounts for the condition of men at any given time for an accounting, as the law of karma renders to each their due, but the passage does not prove souls cannot repent, unless there is a point of no return where a soul has entirely given himself over to iniquity and undergoes the second death. Ultimately only God and the higher tribunals can render such judgments as to those who have chosen the full consequence of sin, which is 'death' (not ECT). Such is the view of 'conditional immortality'. In this view the consequence of the full embrace of iniquity naturally produces its end result which is destruction, disintegration, 'death'.
Love must do all in its power to save, redeem, restore. If a soul by freedom of choice can choose life or death...the full potencies and destinies of each must be possible. So immortality is 'conditional' depending on choice. Those who choose life live, those who reject life perish.
The devil is in the details
Conditional immortality.....
This accounts for the condition of men at any given time for an accounting, as the law of karma renders to each their due, but the passage does not prove souls cannot repent, unless there is a point of no return where a soul has entirely given himself over to iniquity and undergoes the second death. Ultimately only God and the higher tribunals can render such judgments as to those who have chosen the full consequence of sin, which is 'death' (not ECT). Such is the view of 'conditional immortality'. In this view the consequence of the full embrace of iniquity naturally produces its end result which is destruction, disintegration, 'death'.
Love must do all in its power to save, redeem, restore. If a soul by freedom of choice can choose life or death...the full potencies and destinies of each must be possible. So immortality is 'conditional' depending on choice. Those who choose life live, those who reject life perish.
The devil is in the details
Tim said:
Sorry, you are right. That verse isn't talking about the devil, the beast and the false prophet. I was thinking of the OTHER prooftext people always use from the Apocalypse of John of Patmos.
Revelation 14:11 is talking about the worshippers of the beast and those who receive the mark of his name. It still isn't talking about everyone. And it still doesn't prove that John 3:16 is false.
Tell me what John 3:16 says in your Bible.
So step by step you are having to admit bible truth...first that death does not mean to cease to exist, now that an ongoing state of punishment awaits some....
....for your interest I have always believed in a much, much wider mercy than evangelicals allow, but yet I see their is a state of eternal punishment for some...
And when I see how wicked some men are I agree with it.
Just answer my question, okay?
What does John 3:16 say in your Bible? You've avoided answering this long enough, and I am sick of this whole discussion. I truly HATE that so much of "Christianity" rejects what the Bible plainly states.
If you can't admit what John 3:16 says, then I have nothing more to say to you. I'm sick of this discussion. This is your last chance, what does John 3:16 say in your Bible?