Satan is not God, he is an angel. Angels live at Jesus' discretion, they are not immortal.
Lon
Well-known member
Incorrect, especially for the believer. Forgiveness often eliminates consequences of sin. God is in this business. Because He changed me, there are consequences against those who have wronged me that have not suffered. And that is only one example. This is true regardless of your disagreement.
That too.
It means that Israel is a county like any other, old ruins from the past. Whatever they had hoped to be was lost when they rejected the original gospel and their calling as tourch bearers of the kingdom.
Oh, it's confusing because earlier you were saying that Satan lead Jesus around and offered him powers that he already had. Angels don't lead creators around, besides Satan was much more than an angel but he was defeated and is gone.
Adam chose to follow Satan instead of God. God gave Satan authority over humans and he has given us the power to resist him, but look at the world today.
We have a different theologies.
Word based mystic
New member
everready
New member
Word based mystic
New member
exactly and??
what is the permanent/eternal irreversible punishment???
matthew 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell
2 peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to ((perish)) but for all to come to repentance.
perish (appolummi) to utterly destroy.
not to inherit eternal life just in a different setting.
death hell and the grave gets tossed in the fire
and voila chapter 21 in progressive context. what comes after the destruction of things that perish. even the old heaven and earth.
and voila there is a new heaven and earth those (old things passed away)
everready
New member
Exactly, utterly destroy with everlasting destruction.
I Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
everready
everready
New member
It appears you don't know who Jesus is Ben.
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
He's alive forevermore.
Praise God!
everready
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
No justification of eternal punishment...unless we redefine our terms
No justification of eternal punishment...unless we redefine our terms
This is only assuming 'God' is some big superman in the sky, holding a big whipping stick, or some other anthropomorphic image, a 'person' doing the punishing, when it is essentially a consequence of transgressing a natural or spiritual law. Since the law of 'karma' (action) acts upon its own dynamic of cause/effect correlations,...what is sown, is what is reaped, measure for measure. The law is not 'offended' if viewing the law as an impersonal principle. A transgression against any law imposes its own penalties, with or without a belief in 'God'. To assume a capricious 'God' is offended by our 'sins', well....perhaps we have made a 'God' in our own image, 'suiting' him as we please.
The concept of 'eternal conscious torment' in hell is problematic on a variety of levels, since detaining a soul in such a state forever defeats the purpose of life itself, which is 'learning', 'evolution', 'progression' 'creative expression', 'unfolding one's innate potential', etc. Love by its own nature will allow 'correction', and any so called 'punishment' or penalties of breaking a law, would be 'remedial' or 'corrective' in nature. We learn by the things we suffer, and thru the law of sowing/reaping, receive our due, and learn thereby. Eternal torture is wholly antithetical to love, logic and sanity.
For more of my own commentary questioning ECT (eternal conscious torment) go here (blog-portal with post-links).
To the bold above, indeed,...its worse than 'abuse', it is premeditated and imposed TORTURE, since the concept of ECT offers no solution, resolve or remedy to the suffering, but only its perpetual infliction TO NO END, which again, is against love, logic and sanity, - it defeats the will of God, the purpose of life/creation, so those assuming such a caricature of 'God' support an action that opposes all 'Real God' stands for.
Indeed,...for the law of love holds all within its universal embrace and application....since Love cannot do what is against its will or nature, and anything of 'God' in us is part of that eternal and divine nature, with all its potential.
pj
No justification of eternal punishment...unless we redefine our terms
This is only assuming 'God' is some big superman in the sky, holding a big whipping stick, or some other anthropomorphic image, a 'person' doing the punishing, when it is essentially a consequence of transgressing a natural or spiritual law. Since the law of 'karma' (action) acts upon its own dynamic of cause/effect correlations,...what is sown, is what is reaped, measure for measure. The law is not 'offended' if viewing the law as an impersonal principle. A transgression against any law imposes its own penalties, with or without a belief in 'God'. To assume a capricious 'God' is offended by our 'sins', well....perhaps we have made a 'God' in our own image, 'suiting' him as we please.
The concept of 'eternal conscious torment' in hell is problematic on a variety of levels, since detaining a soul in such a state forever defeats the purpose of life itself, which is 'learning', 'evolution', 'progression' 'creative expression', 'unfolding one's innate potential', etc. Love by its own nature will allow 'correction', and any so called 'punishment' or penalties of breaking a law, would be 'remedial' or 'corrective' in nature. We learn by the things we suffer, and thru the law of sowing/reaping, receive our due, and learn thereby. Eternal torture is wholly antithetical to love, logic and sanity.
For more of my own commentary questioning ECT (eternal conscious torment) go here (blog-portal with post-links).
To the bold above, indeed,...its worse than 'abuse', it is premeditated and imposed TORTURE, since the concept of ECT offers no solution, resolve or remedy to the suffering, but only its perpetual infliction TO NO END, which again, is against love, logic and sanity, - it defeats the will of God, the purpose of life/creation, so those assuming such a caricature of 'God' support an action that opposes all 'Real God' stands for.
Indeed,...for the law of love holds all within its universal embrace and application....since Love cannot do what is against its will or nature, and anything of 'God' in us is part of that eternal and divine nature, with all its potential.
pj
Word based mystic
New member
yup good quote.
everlasting
forever
both words rooted in
till the end of the age, period of time, relating to this present earth age.
the wages of sin is death not life never ending
2nd death = ummm ((death)) period
at the end of the age ummm simple
"Man might fear a great God, but he trusts and loves only a good God."
This leads man to tacitly imply that he believes things, not because he thinks that they are true, but because he is afraid not to believe them. This control mechanism is a creation of the priest class, shamans or medicine men.
This leads man to tacitly imply that he believes things, not because he thinks that they are true, but because he is afraid not to believe them. This control mechanism is a creation of the priest class, shamans or medicine men.
Word based mystic
New member
any scriptures that you would consider corrective or judgemental
so as to discourage the sin or abuse to others, YOU would consider controlling.
does not a good parent control the parameters of a childs freedom for their own safety.
a poor father that would be that would not warn of destruction harmful consequences of poor choices.
That's not true, there is plenty of great wisdom in the collection of writings used to make the Bible that I am subservient to, just not the untruthful things that outrage a persons sense of justice and mercy.
But you are correct when you say that a good parent controls the parameters of a child's freedom. In some ways superstition has served to guard mankind from wondering off to far and for their own good. But now that the age of enlightenment and science has liberated man from much of his superstition, we face new challenges that need new perimeters.
CherubRam
New member
Your list of arguments is out of wack. Take some time and read the New Testament. And just because you can find some Pagan Catholic corruptions, it does not mean you should toss the whole thing out.
Word based mystic
New member
and of course these perimeters come from your sensibilities.
from your speculations.
from your perceived moral judgement
from your concept of enlightenment.
from your knowledge of good and evil.
your
your
you
you
self
self
judge
situational ethics
pride that your
judgement determines what is of God and what is not.
pride
self righteousness
the lies in the garden
flow out of your mouth
for surely if you eat of this tree you shall not die
Jesus said "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD." Matthew 4:4
you now in your own righteousness become the judge of what is correct scripture and not. dispensing of some and keeping others.
self
righteousness
death.
Well, that's what they have convinced you of, doubt yourself, if you have a sense of right and wrong it comes from pride, if you question them it's the crafty beast.
In one age an author of scripture claimed God moved David to number Israel, 200 years later another author retelling the same story changed it to Satan moving David to number Israel. But the powers that be would accuse you of some bogus form of heresy for pointing out this simple fact. Another class of biblical apologist would debase their own self respect by making up some contorted excuses for the same.
Even though the Hebrew language evolved 500 years after Moses and the OT books were written in Babylon nearly 1,000 years after the sage lived, if Moses wrote Genesis there were NO scriptures before the reformer began his writings. NO so called "mouth of God" for anyone to live by for thousands of years.