Justification of Eternal Punishment

[Man.0]

I have to because Jesus said "these shall depart into eternal punishment"
God sees, I trust His judgement.

'Eternal' or 'everlasting' is translated from the greek word 'aion', which itself refers to an age of time. It doesn't mean an indefinite, unending period of time. Jesus wasn't saying that punishment would be without end.

Also, let me ask you, Totton: what's the use in a punishment that lasts forever? Isn't punishment supposed to bring someone to correction? After which there is no need for that punishment.

Would you punish a disobedient child forever and ever? And not just punish them forever and ever, but in the most torturous and tormenting of ways - which is what the conception of hell is.

 

[Totton Linnet]

'Eternal' or 'everlasting' is translated from the greek word 'aion', which itself refers to an age of time. It doesn't mean an indefinite, unending period of time. Jesus wasn't saying that punishment would be without end.

Also, let me ask you, Totton: what's the use in a punishment that lasts forever? Isn't punishment supposed to bring someone to correction? After which there is no need for that punishment.

Would you punish a disobedient child forever and ever? And not just punish them forever and ever, but in the most torturous and tormenting of ways - which is what the conception of hell is.

I just do not accept it...and it is no use trying to push it, eternal life means eternal.

You are minding the things of man, looking on outward form. When Christ confronted the Pharisees [and none of them had probably murdered anyone] He called them by their inner nature.

Vipers


You just can't do anything with vipers, there is no meaner creature.

Christ was not using hyperbole, I think there are men and women around deserving of eternal punishment.

 

[Man.0]

, I think there are men and women around deserving of eternal punishment.

But you're not one of them? Yes? No?

If 'no', why are you not deserving of 'eternal punishment'?

 

[Totton Linnet]

But you're not one of them? Yes? No?

If 'no', why are you not deserving of 'eternal punishment'?

I received good news, forgiveness at the cross, having been pardoned I received new life.

I may have been deserving of hell but I was saved.

Do you know such men as Himmler and Al Capone had as much opportunity as me to hear the gospel?

Your quarrel is with God not me.

 

[chrysostom]

'Eternal' or 'everlasting' is translated from the greek word 'aion', which itself refers to an age of time. It doesn't mean an indefinite, unending period of time. Jesus wasn't saying that punishment would be without end.

Also, let me ask you, Totton: what's the use in a punishment that lasts forever? Isn't punishment supposed to bring someone to correction? After which there is no need for that punishment.

Would you punish a disobedient child forever and ever? And not just punish them forever and ever, but in the most torturous and tormenting of ways - which is what the conception of hell is.

good post
good argument

 

[Totton Linnet]

Jesus indicated quite clearly that all were not God's children...there were those who were children of the devil and the devil's desire is what they do...they slew Christ.

Heaven and earth will pass away but Jesu's word will never pass away.......

 

[Man.0]

I received good news, forgiveness at the cross, having been pardoned I received new life.

I may have been deserving of hell but I was saved.

Do you know such men as Himmler and Al Capone had as much opportunity as me to hear the gospel?

Your quarrel is with God not me.

Totton, you're not saved yet. You're currently living a lie; thinking you're a Christian when in actuality you are not. You're in hell, right now, at this very moment. So am I. So is most of the world's population.

As for Himmler and Capone, it simply wasn't their time to be saved. But they will be saved, in the next world or the ages after, or whenever it happens. But this is absolutely definite: they will be saved. And so will you, Totton. Isn't that a good thing - that everyone who has ever lived, will be saved?

 

[Bright Raven]

Totton, you're not saved yet. You're currently living a lie; thinking you're a Christian when in actuality you are not. You're in hell, right now, at this very moment. So am I. So is most of the world's population.

As for Himmler and Capone, it simply wasn't their time to be saved. But they will be saved, in the next world or the ages after, or whenever it happens. But this is absolutely definite: they will be saved. And so will you, Totton. Isn't that a good thing - that everyone who has ever lived, will be saved?

You're a wacko.

 

[way 2 go]

'Eternal' or 'everlasting' is translated from the greek word 'aion', which itself refers to an age of time. It doesn't mean an indefinite, unending period of time. Jesus wasn't saying that punishment would be without end.

why would you lie ?
so according to you eternal life is not really eternal.

Mat 18:8 aiōnios
Mat 19:29
Mat 25:41
Mark 10:17

everlasting
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
perpetual eternal, for ever, everlasting G166

it is eternal life
and it is eternal conscious torment

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You're a wacko.

He's been banned. Good riddance.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

good post
good argument

Good grief!

 

[Arthur Brain]

The point is this, all these things belong to the present fallen state of mankind...God is going to judge it. Before He comes to judge He has set a time during which men and women have a chance to reconcile with God and be saved. It is called the age of grace.

We are actively working or seeking to promote God's programn of reconciliation...you are actively opposed to it.

Tens of thousands of murderers, rapists kidnappers, thieves etc have received reconciliation and been saved, their sins have been washed away, they have received a new life, a new clean heart

YOU could receive this right where you are sitting, it is but a prayer away, a "yes Lord I receive your new life" prayed sincerely.

The point is, you didn't answer the nub of my question. Also, what do you mean 'I'm actively opposed to it'? Opposed to what exactly, you preaching and others? Nope. I can take issue over a doctrine without doing so and please don't presume to know anything about my belief status simply because I don't 'conform' to some sort of eternal 'hell' thanks...

 

[Arthur Brain]

Christ was not using hyperbole, I think there are men and women around deserving of eternal punishment.

Who exactly? The mass murdering dictator? The person who hasn't taken or violated another life yet dies 'in sin' while a serial rapist is washed clean because he converts before physical death?

Is there any meaner creature than those who advocate the perpetual and interminable unending suffering of others?

 

[Arthur Brain]

I sometimes wonder whether those who think the 'eternal torment' doctrine is correct would be quite so comfortable if they were witness to the agony of someone they believe "deserving" of such for 'just' 20 minutes or so or even one and manage to retain such a distanced 'academic' outlook after just the tiniest, tiniest snippet of what they believe should befall all people who aren't "saved".

I'd like to think that most would actually be jolted enough into at least thinking a lot more deeply about what they actually endorse. Some extreme Calvinists actually proclaim they'd rejoice in seeing their own loved ones burning if they weren't part of the 'elect'.

The whole thing is just sick beyond words.

 

[Aimiel]

... everyone who has ever lived, will be saved?

That's a lie. All liars shall have their place in hell.

 

[Timotheos]

That is the annihilation position. Most real Christians do not agree with that view; it is a big cop-out. She does not need you to explain false doctrine.

"Most real Christians"?

Have you heard of the "No True Scotsman" Fallacy?
"No true Scotsman would ever put sugar on his porridge".
"But Angus likes sugar with his porridge, and he is a Scotsman"
"Well, no TRUE Scotsman would ever put sugar on his porridge."

Secondly, have you heard of the "Bandwagon Fallacy"?
"McDonalds sells the most cheeseburgers in the world, therefore McDonalds Cheeseburgers are the best in the world. You should only eat McDonalds Cheeseburgers."

Thirdly: Where is the copout you are talking about? What Copout? The Bible specifically states that the wicked will perish and will be no more. How can it be a copout for me to believe exactly what is written in the Bible? This isn't a rhetorical question, you said some harsh things to me, so I deserve an answer. How is it a copout to believe what the Bible says?

You believe that Conditional Immortality is a false doctrine even though it has better Scriptural support than Eternal Conscious Tormentism. If you wish to insult me for believing what the Scripture says, you should have better proof of your position. Why don't you show me the Scripture verses that say "the wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tortured alive for all eternity whicle they are dead"?

 

[Timotheos]

why would you lie ?
so according to you eternal life is not really eternal.

Mat 18:8 aiōnios
Mat 19:29
Mat 25:41
Mark 10:17

everlasting
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
perpetual eternal, for ever, everlasting G166

it is eternal life
and it is eternal conscious torment

The verse doesn't say "eternal life" and "eternal conscious torment".
It says "eternal life" and "eternal punishment". Those of us who believe that the wicked will be destroyed for all eternity also believe in eternal punishment. We are just disagreeing with you on what FORM that eternal punishment takes. Since the Bible specifically states that the wicked will be destroyed and will be no more, that is what I must believe, no matter how popular the view is that God tortures the wicked alive in hell forever.

I am compelled to either believe what the Bible SAYS or reject the Bible as false. I believe what the Bible says, therefore I reject the doctrine that says the wicked go to hell when they die where they will be tortured alive forever while they are dead.

 

[ttruscott]

All that Adam and Eve did was eat forbidden fruit and caused the fall of all of humanity.

People fallen by their own free will were brought into the judgement of death upon Adam, not his sin. Adam caused no sinful downfall of anyone.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I sometimes wonder whether those who think the 'eternal torment' doctrine is correct would be quite so comfortable if they were witness to the agony of someone they believe "deserving" of such for 'just' 20 minutes or so or even one and manage to retain such a distanced 'academic' outlook after just the tiniest, tiniest snippet of what they believe should befall all people who aren't "saved".

I'd like to think that most would actually be jolted enough into at least thinking a lot more deeply about what they actually endorse. Some extreme Calvinists actually proclaim they'd rejoice in seeing their own loved ones burning if they weren't part of the 'elect'.

The whole thing is just sick beyond words.

Depends on what one sees that torment as being. I see it as being separation and self inflicted anguish due to it. Do you feel sorry for unrepentant murders in prison for life too?

 

[way 2 go]

The verse doesn't say "eternal life" and "eternal conscious torment".
It says "eternal life" and "eternal punishment". Those of us who believe that the wicked will be destroyed for all eternity also believe in eternal punishment.

can santa clause be eternally punished ? why?

We are just disagreeing with you on what FORM that eternal punishment takes.

Mat 13:49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous
Mat 13:50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

to

Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Since the Bible specifically states that the wicked will be destroyed and will be no more,

wicked will be destroyed from the earth, yes Acts 3:23

that is what I must believe,

a lie

no matter how popular the view is that God tortures the wicked alive in hell forever.

it is not about popular it is about truth

I am compelled to either believe what the Bible SAYS or reject the Bible as false.

too bad you went with the bible is false

I believe what the Bible says,

no you reject the simple plain language of the bible
so you can feel comfortable about those who are perishing
you are nicer than God

therefore I reject the doctrine that says the wicked go to hell when they die where they will be tortured alive forever while they are dead.

therefore for no given reason you reject the bible