Justification of Eternal Punishment

[Totton Linnet]

You keep coming back to everlasting life being forever, I agree with that and I already explained why that doesn't indicate that there is everlasting torture in hell. Don't you remember that I explained this to you? Do I have to explain it again? No Problem, one of the fruits of the Spirit is patience, so I can patiently explain it to you all over again.

Eternal life is indeed forever, it is life that lasts forever. Destruction is also forever. It lasts forever. Being destroyed is a punishment that lasts forever, because there isn't ever a time when the person who has been destroyed will become "undestroyed". So just because the Bible says that the righteous receive eternal life, that doesn't mean that those who receive eternal punish will receive eternal life in hell being tortured forever. In fact, if you read Matthew 25:46 carefully, you will see that only ONE of the groups receives eternal life, the other doesn't. In order to be tortured alive forever, a person would have to be ALIVE forever, and those who do not receive eternal life are not alive forever. That alone proves that your theory is wrong.

This is a craftily designed doctrine, it is a variation of the lie Satan told Adam and Eve "You will not die" the purpose of the lie is to strengthen man's resolve to sin.

Wicked folk believe that when you die you are buried in the ground and that is all, no after life, no bringing to account.

Here you are confirming them in their delusion. Death is not annihilation it is the state of being separated from God and God's goodness.

 

[Timotheos]

can santa clause be eternally punished ? why?

No. There is no Santa Claus. However, when an actual person is destroyed, never to exist again, that punishment is eternal.

Mat 13:49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous
Mat 13:50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This verse does not say that the wicked will be tortured for all eternity in the furnace. What kind of defective furnace doesn't completely burn up what is put into it? This verse confirms my position that the wicked are destroyed. Of course the wicked weep and gnash their teeth at the furnace, they are about to be destroyed. You are reading your doctrine into this verse, a process known as "eisegesis".

Mat 22:13 Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

This verse also does not say that the wicked will be tortured alive forever in hell.

wicked will be destroyed from the earth, yes Acts 3:23

Quoting a verse which says that the wicked will be destroyed really does nothing to prove that the wicked will remain UNdestroyed forever being tortured alive in hell.

a lie

You claim that it is a lie that I believe what the Bible says, yet I showed you that I do. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not PERISH but will have eternal life.

How dare you claim that I lied, when I haven't. It is a sin to bear false witness against others.

it is not about popular it is about truth

When the doctrine of eternal torture is defended, It is always claimed that it is true because it is the most popular doctrine concerning the fate of the wicked. If it is about truth, then you should accept the doctrine that says that the wicked will perish, since this is what the Bible specifically states, even if the doctrine that the wages of sin is death is not as popular as the doctrine that the wages of sin is hellish torture.

too bad you went with the bible is false

This sentence doesn't even make any sense. Are you attempting to say that I believe the Bible is false? You are wrong. I believe that the Bible is true. The Bible says that the wicked will perish. Do you deny this? I believe that the wicked will perish. Therefore I believe that the Bible is true. If you do not believe that the wicked will perish and instead believe that the wicked will live forever being tortured, then it is you who believes that the Bible is false.

no you reject the simple plain language of the bible

No, I believe the simple plain language of the Bible which specifically states that the wicked will perish, the wicked will be destroyed and the wicked will be no more.

so you can feel comfortable about those who are perishing

I simply believe what the Bible says about those who are perishing, that they are PERISHING, that means that they do not live forever in hell being tortured alive. If I believe what the Bible says because it makes me "feel comfortable" then how about you? Do you only believe in eternal conscious torture because it makes you feel good? No, the fact is that I believe the wicked will perish simply because I have read in the Bible that "the wicked will perish" and "the wicked will be no more".

you are nicer than God

That's very nice of you to say, but it isn't true. I just tell you what the Word of God says. If I seem nicer to you than a god that you think will torture people for all eternity, then the problem is that you do not have an accurate idea of who God really is.

therefore for no given reason you reject the bible

I don't reject the Bible, and you have not shown me one verse that I reject. In fact, why don't you make an attempt to show me a verse from the Bible that says "The wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tortured alive forever while they are dead"? I will bet you that you can't show me a verse that says that.

But I can certainly show you a verse that says the wicked will perish and another that says the wicked will be no more, if you are interested at all in what the Bible says.

I think that your problem is that you reject what the Bible says. Why is that? Is it because you prefer your doctrine of torture over what the Bible actually says? Does the torture of other people make you feel good? That would be a sign of sadistic tendencies.

 

[Timotheos]

This is a craftily designed doctrine, it is a variation of the lie Satan told Adam and Eve "You will not die" the purpose of the lie is to strengthen man's resolve to sin.

Wicked folk believe that when you die you are buried in the ground and that is all, no after life, no bringing to account.

Here you are confirming them in their delusion. Death is not annihilation it is the state of being separated from God and God's goodness.

How is the doctrine that states that the wicked will perish a variation the lie that the wicked will never perish? That doesn't make any sense at all.

You claim that death is the state of separation from God and not death at all. This is exactly the same lie that the serpent told Adam and Eve, "Surely you will not die". You are confirming what the Serpent said. "You will not die, you will merely be separated".

I believe that the wages of sin is death, just as the Bible clearly states. This is the direct opposite of what the serpent said, "Surely you will NOT die".

Unless you repent, you will likewise perish. This is what Jesus Christ said, and it is what I believe and it is what you and the snake deny.

 

[Caino]

 

[Angel4Truth]

Being a good person, doesn't stop you from being tossed into hell.

There are none good, except God. Everyone has sinned, and even one sin separates from God.

If just being good (which is highly subjective) saved us, we wouldnt need a Savior.

 

[Man.0]

Being a good person, doesn't stop you from being tossed into hell.

There are none good, except God. Everyone has sinned, and even one sin separates from God.

Two questions for you to consider, 'Angel4Truth', or anybody for that matter:

1. If all have sinned, shouldn't all go to ''hell''?

2. And if Jesus's death doesn't save all, what was the point in Him dying in the first place?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Two questions for you to consider, 'Angel4Truth', or anybody for that matter:

1. If all have sinned, shouldn't all go to ''hell''?

yep, we dont because of the mercy and grace of God when we receive Christ.

2. And if Jesus's death doesn't save all, what was the point in Him dying in the first place?

It saves all who receive it. Do you receive it? Grace is offered to all.

 

[Totton Linnet]

How is the doctrine that states that the wicked will perish a variation the lie that the wicked will never perish? That doesn't make any sense at all.

You claim that death is the state of separation from God and not death at all. This is exactly the same lie that the serpent told Adam and Eve, "Surely you will not die". You are confirming what the Serpent said. "You will not die, you will merely be separated".

I believe that the wages of sin is death, just as the Bible clearly states. This is the direct opposite of what the serpent said, "Surely you will NOT die".

Unless you repent, you will likewise perish. This is what Jesus Christ said, and it is what I believe and it is what you and the snake deny.

Because you craftily slither around the fact that Jesus spoke of people as being dead already...man is dead. The term in Genesis is "in dying you will die" there is physical death but then Jesus said your soul will be required of you....it is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgement.

 

[Timotheos]

Because you craftily slither around the fact that Jesus spoke of people as being dead already...man is dead. The term in Genesis is "in dying you will die" there is physical death but then Jesus said your soul will be required of you....it is appointed unto man once to die and after that the judgement.

I don't "slither", I believe the Bible exactly "As Written".

I simply do not believe the twists you add to the Bible, such as "dying you will die" means "you will die the second you eat the fruit". You twist every verse in order to claim that they agree with your twisted doctrine of torture.

The Bible specifically says "The wicked will perish" and "The wicked will be no more". Go ahead and slither out of that. The Bible specifically states that the wages of sin is death. Just try to slither your way around that one, in order to force it to say "the wages of sin is eternal torture in hell". Go ahead and slither, you creep. John 3:16 specifically says "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not PERISH, but will have eternal life". Go ahead and slither out of that and change "perish" to "be tortured alive forever". Jesus said the way is wide that leads to DESTRUCTION. Go ahead and slither around Jesus Christ's words, twisting them to mean the way is wide that leads to eternal torture in hell. Go ahead, twist Jesus's words, to your own peril. The fact is that you don't even believe any part of the Bible that DARES to disagree with your insane doctrine of torture. You twist and slither in order to change the words of the Bible to agree with you, Slithering Sister. Your actions are shameful, and I do not believe that you are a Christian. I believe that you will be destroyed on the Day of Judgment and Destruction of the unGodly.

 

[Timotheos]

Alright Totten, you creep

Show me right now, right here, even ONE verse from the Bible that says "The wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tortured (or even tormented) alive forever".

I will bet you that you CAN'T show even ONE verse that says this with twisting it and slithering around it.

How DARE you claim that I slither, you creep, you are not a Christian and you will perish on the day of judgment. You will be destroyed, and you will be no more. You will be burnt to ash and blown away with the rest of the unbelievers. Since you are a liar, you will not inherit eternal life, you will be completely destroyed, turned to ash and blown away, your dead corpse will be eaten by worms until it is completely consumed.

 

[Totton Linnet]

you are so kind and loving....to murderers, child rapers and false prophets

Your message to them is "go in peace, it will be well with you"

 

[Totton Linnet]

We have shown you many times the relevant scriptures, you just slither around them.

 

[Man.0]

It saves all who receive it. Do you receive it? Grace is offered to all.

First of all, if grace - a gift of God - is offered to all, who are we to reject that divine gift, as if we have any right to do so? I think it's absurd, to think that someone can reject and spurn a gift given to them from the Sovereign Ruler of the universe. For example, did you reject the gift of physical life given to you? Did you even have any say in the matter of your physical birth - whether to be born or not? If salvation is a new birth (which it is), what makes you think you should have any say in your spiritual birth, if you didn't have any say in your physical one?

Secondly, you give man the power, by saying he or she has the 'freewill' to reject God. You put man's destiny into his own hands. But what sort of a careless god would leave it up to his own creatures to decide their own fate? What sort of a god would watch his creatures go off into destruction (not even destruction, but eternal conscious torment)...powerless to save them? Couldn't he stop them from experiencing such an awful fate? And if he is unable to stop them, doesn't that mean that he is not omnipotent (all-powerful)?

What sort of a god would create creatures in the first place, knowing that he'd have to send many of them to a horrible place of torment? Why did he create them in the first place, if only to destine them for an eternal fate of cruel suffering? What kind of sadistic god is that? Yet this is the god you believe in, Angel4Truth.

You may have noticed that I've switched, in my rhetoric, to using a lowercase 'he' and lowercase 'god'. Because the 'god' that your 'Christian' theology describes is not God at all. Your god is not omnipotent (all-powerful) and sovereign (in control); but a negligent, irreponsible, wicked god who is nothing at all like the real God, Jesus Christ.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Two questions for you to consider, 'Angel4Truth', or anybody for that matter:

1. If all have sinned, shouldn't all go to ''hell''?

2. And if Jesus's death doesn't save all, what was the point in Him dying in the first place?

The cross is designed to save those who are seeking salvation from God and to repel those who hate God and wish to remain His enemies.

 

[Totton Linnet]

First of all, if grace - a gift of God - is offered to all, who are we to reject that divine gift, as if we have any right to do so? I think it's absurd, to think that someone can reject and spurn a gift given to them from the Sovereign Ruler of the universe. For example, did you reject the gift of physical life given to you? Did you even have any say in the matter of your physical birth - whether to be born or not? If salvation is a new birth (which it is), what makes you think you should have any say in your spiritual birth, if you didn't have any say in your physical one?

Secondly, you give man the power, by saying he or she has the 'freewill' to reject God. You put man's destiny into his own hands. But what sort of a careless god would leave it up to his own creatures to decide their own fate? What sort of a god would watch his creatures go off into destruction (not even destruction, but eternal conscious torment)...powerless to save them? Couldn't he stop them from experiencing such an awful fate? And if he is unable to stop them, doesn't that mean that he is not omnipotent (all-powerful)?

What sort of a god would create creatures in the first place, knowing that he'd have to send many of them to a horrible place of torment? Why did he create them in the first place, if only to destine them for an eternal fate of cruel suffering? What kind of sadistic god is that? Yet this is the god you believe in, Angel4Truth.

You may have noticed that I've switched, in my rhetoric, to using a lowercase 'he' and lowercase 'god'. Because the 'god' that your 'Christian' theology describes is not God at all. Your god is not omnipotent (all-powerful) and sovereign (in control); but a negligent, irreponsible, wicked god who is nothing at all like the real God, Jesus Christ.

God gave life, man chose death. So if God saves some or most nobody can complain for they chose.

 

[Bright Raven]

Alright Totten, you creep

Show me right now, right here, even ONE verse from the Bible that says "The wicked will go to hell when they die where they will be tortured (or even tormented) alive forever".

I will bet you that you CAN'T show even ONE verse that says this with twisting it and slithering around it.

How DARE you claim that I slither, you creep, you are not a Christian and you will perish on the day of judgment. You will be destroyed, and you will be no more. You will be burnt to ash and blown away with the rest of the unbelievers. Since you are a liar, you will not inherit eternal life, you will be completely destroyed, turned to ash and blown away, your dead corpse will be eaten by worms until it is completely consumed.

Ask and ye shall receive.
Revelation 20:11-15Modern English Version (MEV)

The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it. From His face the earth and the heavens fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God. Books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one by his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Man.0]

Totton and Timotheos,

One of you believes in Hell - eternal conscious torment; the other believes in annihilation (destruction). Both of you are in the wrong. God is much, much, much more loving and merciful than you give Him credit for. Good news! He will not subject His beloved creatures to either of those cruel fates. The only fate for all mankind is total, complete and utter salvation - no single person shall be missing. Yes,not a single one shall be languishing in fiery hell, or a single one doomed to destruction. Shouldn't you give thanks to God, that all will be saved? Do you not want all to be saved?

 

[Bright Raven]

Totton and Timotheos,

One of you believes in Hell - eternal conscious torment; the other believes in annihilation (destruction). Both of you are in the wrong. God is much, much, much more loving and merciful than you give Him credit for. Good news! He will not subject His beloved creatures to either of those cruel fates. The only fate for all mankind is total, complete and utter salvation - no single person shall be missing. Yes,not a single one shall be languishing in fiery hell, or a single one doomed to destruction. Shouldn't you give thanks to God, that all will be saved? Do you not want all to be saved?

Revelation 20:11-15 Modern English Version (MEV)

The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it. From His face the earth and the heavens fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God. Books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one by his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Man.0]

God gave life, man chose death. So if God saves some or most nobody can complain for they chose.

What kind of utterly incompotent and powerless god do you believe in, that he can only save some or most? Your god's not much of a saviour, is he? Definitely not the God of the bible!

 

[Totton Linnet]

Totton and Timotheos,

One of you believes in Hell - eternal conscious torment; the other believes in annihilation (destruction). Both of you are in the wrong. God is much, much, much more loving and merciful than you give Him credit for. Good news! He will not subject His beloved creatures to either of those cruel fates. The only fate for all mankind is total, complete and utter salvation - no single person shall be missing. Yes,not a single one shall be languishing in fiery hell, or a single one doomed to destruction. Shouldn't you give thanks to God, that all will be saved? Do you not want all to be saved?

All liars will go to hell....you stupidly say God will torment them for a thousand years but not forever, He is kind but evidently not overkind.

Man will get his own choosings

They were not afraid to inflict pain and death on others