Jesus Will Never Return

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Ben Masada

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Jesus Will Never Return

Interplanner said:
BenM,
working back through this stack:

re: understanding. Paul's point in his faith vs. sight contrast was that those who are dialed into what happened in Christ (see his explanation in vs 16+) are living by faith. It is not a contradiction or discarding of reality. As for those who live by sight, he means those who are veiled from realizing what happened in Christ. He himself saw some things Christ did first hand, however, he was later shown that a few details like that were not the big picture or message God was expressing in Christ.

re the appearances of Christ
The verb in Acts 1:3 "appeared" is the Greek's present continuous. Ie, it is not about one showing. It is best translated: he kept on appearing to them... which is probably why he says he gave many convincing proofs. btw, Luke was writing down Paul's teachings and understandings of the early days.

re the OP
I have thought you might on the right track for another reason, which is Eph 3:21, a doxology which includes the phrase 'throughout all generations.' He may have meant to bridge to the new heaves and new earth, I'm not sure.

One other reason you may be correct is that there is quite a distinction in the NT between some acts of conclusive judgement upon Israel in the 1st century and on the other hand, the judgement of the rest of the world. The original declarations are that the latter would happen right after the former (Mt 24:29). But a delay was allowed in the following verses, and 2 Pet 3 explains and defends that delay. I think the difference between what Luke records in 21:25+ and Mt in 24:29 is nearly irresolveable; if Luke (Paul) was so convinced that the end of the world was right after the destruction of Jerusalem, it sure doesn't show. Paul continued to see things that way in the earliest letters: in Thessalonian letters the wrath is complete and the coming is very soon.
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I am sorry Interplanner but I failed to see the point you have in mind with this post of yours above even after reading it twice. If you don't mind, I would like you shared with me what I have missed in a line or two.
 
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Ben Masada

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Jesus Will Never Return

Untellectual said:
Are we talking about the same thing?

Are you asking me to pick up a text? I am talking about the text of scripture you and I are referring to.
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Never mind if we are talking about the same thing or not. Just show me what you mean to reconsider.
 
Jacob

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Ben Masada said:
Never mind if we are talking about the same thing or not. Just show me what you mean to reconsider.
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To reconsider is to consider again either with new data (I mean here "evidences" though it is a different word) or the same as what you already have, that about which you have spoken or communicated different from another position. That is, consider the position I have shared with you. But more importantly, consider what the text says. That is, consider what the Biblical text says. We are not to consider what it does not say.
 
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Ben Masada

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Jesus Will Never Return

Untellectual said:
To reconsider is to consider again either with new data (I mean here "evidences" though it is a different word) or the same as what you already have, that about which you have spoken or communicated different from another position. That is, consider the position I have shared with you. But more importantly, consider what the text says. That is, consider what the Biblical text says. We are not to consider what it does not say.
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Sorry but, I really have no idea what you are talking about. You are simply circling around verbal juggling about things I have no idea what you mean.
 
Jacob

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Ben Masada said:
Sorry but, I really have no idea what you are talking about. You are simply circling around verbal juggling about things I have no idea what you mean.
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You said the Bible says Jesus was married. I said it does not say Jesus was married.
 
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Interplanner

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1, when Paul says he lives by faith, it means about what happened in Christ. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting mens' sins against them, 2 Cor 5. By faith is not guessing, it is real content based on what occurred in Christ. See, for ex., Colossians 1.

when he says not by sight, he is not demeaning what is historical or objective or visual. He means ordinary human life outside of Christ, and he means what he grew up in in Judaism. In 2 Cor 5 he also says that he once knew Christ in a ordinary way, because he saw some of the events first hand. However, he did not "see" or know that God was in Christ, completing the Gospel.

2, on appearances.
You said there is a contradiction of 40 days vs 1 day in the two accounts. However, the Greek verb tense for "appeared" in Acts 1 is "past continuous" meaning, referring to several appearances.

I'll stop there with just these two points till we get caught up.
 
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Ben Masada

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Jesus Will Never Return

Untellectual said:
You said the Bible says Jesus was married. I said it does not say Jesus was married.
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I said that Jesus was married from the many evidences in the NT that attest to that fact and, above all, the NT does not state that he was NOT married. You can't show a single evidence in the NT that Jesus was NOT married. I can show you many that he was married. Your testimony is based on the gospel of Paul; mine is based on the life of Jesus as a Jew who came to fulfill the Jewish laws down to the letter. (Mat. 5:17-19)
 
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Ben Masada

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Jesus Will Never Return

Interplanner said:
1, when Paul says he lives by faith, it means about what happened in Christ. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting mens' sins against them, 2 Cor 5. By faith is not guessing, it is real content based on what occurred in Christ. See, for ex., Colossians 1.

when he says not by sight, he is not demeaning what is historical or objective or visual. He means ordinary human life outside of Christ, and he means what he grew up in in Judaism. In 2 Cor 5 he also says that he once knew Christ in a ordinary way, because he saw some of the events first hand. However, he did not "see" or know that God was in Christ, completing the Gospel.

2, on appearances.
You said there is a contradiction of 40 days vs 1 day in the two accounts. However, the Greek verb tense for "appeared" in Acts 1 is "past continuous" meaning, referring to several appearances.

I'll stop there with just these two points till we get caught up.
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Did God in "Christ" succeed to reconcile the world with Himself? No. Could it have been that God was not powerful enough to do so? No, but only to mean that Paul was wrong.

Now, from what you say above that Paul did not see or know that God was in "Christ" completing the gospel, you have simply contradicted yourself from Paul's statement above that God was in "Christ" reconciling the world with Himself.

Jesus had nothing to do with the Greeks. The Hellenist was not Jesus but Paul. Hence the whole NT is crowded with Hellenist teaching. Jesus lived according to the Tanach aka Torah, not the NT that did not exist at his time and that btw, he never even dreamed it would ever rise.

You have already been caught up in contradictions.
 
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Ben Masada

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Jesus Will Never Return

Aimiel said:
Hogwash. Elijah raised the dead boy and Elisha's bones did so too.
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Only according to Christians who can't think metaphorically. If you have any idea of what resuscitation is, why don't you review the case of Elijah and that boy to see the difference between resuscitation and resurrection? Do you have any idea about what embellishment is? It was very common thing among the scribes in Israel to embellish the events among kings and prophets so as to distinguish them from less important people. BTW, this is very common throughout the world in general. Jews would not report something not Jewish as having literally happened. Bodily resurrection is not Jewish. You can find it in the NT because the book is not Jewish.
 
Jacob

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Ben Masada said:
I said that Jesus was married from the many evidences in the NT that attest to that fact and, above all, the NT does not state that he was NOT married. You can't show a single evidence in the NT that Jesus was NOT married. I can show you many that he was married. Your testimony is based on the gospel of Paul; mine is based on the life of Jesus as a Jew who came to fulfill the Jewish laws down to the letter. (Mat. 5:17-19)
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The point is not to find a verse that says He was not married, but that in the absence of any verse that says He was married we cannot then say He was married.
 
WonderfulLordJesus

WonderfulLordJesus

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2 Peter 3

1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 
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