Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

[Dartman]

“I change not”

I never claimed GOD changed, but HE has changed His Laws MANY times. The New Testament replaced the Mosaic Law.
The Mosaic Law was a NEW covenant, NOT made with Israel's forefathers!

Why do we pray “On earth as it is in heaven”?

Hebrews 8:1-5 ...'Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: Who serve unto THE EXAMPLE AND SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make ALL THINGS according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.'

Hebrews 9:24 ...'For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the FIGURES OF THE TRUE; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.'

Revelation 11:19 ...'And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple THE ARK OF HIS TESTAMENT: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.'

You think the Almighty One has a separate Law in His kingdom? Dividing His House?

The commandments are His Character...His eternal Character...

Hope that adds to the scope power and majesty of “Lord of the Sabbath”

The Son begotten became the Lord of the Sabbath...

Not a single verse contains ANY statement to support your fictitious claim;

...Sabbath was made for MAN...long before Israel ever was...

 

[Dartman]

I am under the asumption that only one person can be the "FIRST AND THE LAST", only one person can be "ALPHA AND OMEGA".

You are wrong. BOTH statements address the uniqueness of the speaker. Jehovah and Jesus are unique for different reasons.
Jesus IS the "first and last" Christ.
Jehovah is the "first and last" God..... "the ONLY true God".

 

[clefty]

I never claimed GOD changed, but HE has changed His Laws MANY times. The New Testament replaced the Mosaic Law.

right...just like when He told Israel to murder...that abrogated the “thou shalt not” about it all right?...or when He told Hosea to marry an adulteress that changed the law for woman that they can now sleep around once married eh?...

Speaking of Moses he did allow for divorce...But some maintain the original one man one wife remains...

So hang on...when was that New Covenant written?...while Yahushua was living yes? He taught and lived the OT and even instructed to do as they teach from Moses’ seat just don’t do what they do...as they just don’t do what they preach...

So when did that new covenant become signed and sealed and put into effect? Where did He teach or demonstrate the change any changes? Paul kept the festivals Peter even kosher...the goyim crowded the synagogues every Eabbath to hear moses preached and read in every city...and were to keep kosher too...

The New Testament replaced the Old covenant NOT HIS LAW...those were now written in the hearts and minds of circumcised hearts and sacrificing lips...

The Mosaic Law was a NEW covenant, NOT made with Israel's forefathers!

The Mosiac Covenant of course was made with the Hebrews in Egypt as their forefathers were never in need of saving from slavery in Egypt...duh

But you think the Law...the ETERNAL IMMUTABLE LAW...you know His CHARACTER...was not kept prior this?

Because Yah didnt know the laws? or didnt expect them from His followers?...maybe He learned the “thou shalt not murder” from the Egyptians?

Not a single verse contains ANY statement to support your fictitious claim;

So Yahushua lied when He said Sabbath was made for Man?

Was Israel around when the Sabbath was instituted?

Do you consider marriage just for jews too?

Sabbath and marriage were established about the same time...within a day actually...

Sabbath was actually the first full day of the newlyweds...LOL

Do you consider marriage jewish too?

What is jewish is the false witness that Yahushua changed the customs Moses delivered...Acts 6:13-14

IRONIC no?

 

[Apple7]

You're missing the point. Jesus is NEVER worshiped AS GOD.

Ever.

Jesus' God, and my God, has commanded all men to honor His son. NOT, AS God, but as the Christ, our Lord, sent BY God.

Tell that to the authors who penned the NT, as they used the same Greek term for worship for The Son as applied to The Father.

Stop running...

:cigar:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Dispensationalists do not really understand what they teach about keeping the commandments.
:idunno:

Of course they do.

:rotfl: Keep denying the truth.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Jesus also says that he reveals things to certain people. You don’t think that it can be shown with scripture that Jesus is God come as a Son?

I believe it is possible to twist scripture to make it say things that it never teaches.

No, I’m not talking about adopted sons. The question is whether or not you believe that God has other sons who are not angels but are like Jesus? Jesus coming in the flesh is how God has a begotten son, or do you believe begotten is only about God making Himself only one son in heaven?

I have to go with the plain teaching of the Bible on this, and while the Bible mentions "sons of god" in Genesis and Job, there is no clear teaching about what the "sons of god" are except that they are supernatural in nature.

If you believe the latter, then why are the angels called sons of God?

If the "sons of god" in Genesis are the angels that left their first estate in Jude, then angels are called sons of god.
However, the Bible mentions different types of supernatural beings who have been labeled as angels, even though the Bible does not teach this.
The Bible mentions seraphim, cherubim, archangels, angels, and sons of god.
The Bible does not teach us what they are, it just mentions their interaction with people.

Job 38:4-7 King James Version (KJV)
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


You think that is about human sons of God and not the angels?
Do you not believe it is about when the earth was made?

The book of Job does not call the sons of god humans nor does it call them angels.

I want to talk to you about Jesus though.
Let me know if I understand you correctly.
You believe Jesus lived in heaven and was God’s only son created in heaven.
Jesus then came to earth in the flesh, then went back to heaven as the son he was before coming, correct?

The Bible does not teach that Jesus was created, but the rest of that is what the Bible teaches.

You do not believe the angels in heaven are called the sons of God.

There are beings called "sons of god" and beings called "angels", but the Bible does not say that they are the same thing.

Okay then, let’s talk more about Jesus being God’s only son in heaven.
What makes Jesus God’s son? Is it just God saying so, or some direct part of God being part of Jesus?

If we are supposed to know the answers to those questions, the Bible would have given us the answers.
Since the Bible does not tell us the answers to those questions, those questions are not important for us to know.

 

[Choleric]

You are wrong. BOTH statements address the uniqueness of the speaker. Jehovah and Jesus are unique for different reasons.
Jesus IS the "first and last" Christ.
Jehovah is the "first and last" God..... "the ONLY true God".

you are inserting things into the passage that aren't there in order to make your heresy work. Neither of those clarifying statements are present in either passage. The "First and the Last" is spoken of in the absolute sense and only one person can be first and that is the one true God.

Stop reading your heresy into the passages. It's for your own good.

 

[SabathMoon]

Didn't the Early Church fathers teach theosis of some kind?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Humans are flesh and spirit. Do you agree?

The Bible says that a soul is formed by the union of the breath (spirit) of life and flesh.

Genesis 2:7 7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

A human son is a son because it shares the same flesh and blood as the father; however, humans have their own spirit.

Humans have the breath (spirit) of life in them, but the human personality comes from the soul, not the spirit.

So then, Jesus is flesh and blood and his spirit is the Spirit from God, which makes him more than just a man,

Daniel had the spirit of god in him, but he was just a man, the same way Jesus was just a man during the incarnation.

Daniel 5:11 11 There is a man in thy kingdom, in whom is the spirit of the holy gods; and in the days of thy father light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, was found in him; whom the king Nebuchadnezzar thy father, the king, I say, thy father, made master of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers;​

but God Himself come in the flesh.

That is the opposite of what the Bible teaches:

John 3:17 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.​

Do you have any reason for rejecting the record that God gave about sending His Son?

1 John 5:9-11 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Why can't you answer the question I asked you?

Try asking a better question that does not expose your stupidity.

Is THE ruler of all of Egypt THE ruler of all of Egypt? Yes or No?

Here is a list of some of the rulers of all of Egypt.
Have fun.

25 Famous Pharaohs Narmer King Menes Djoser Snefru Khufu Khafre Neferefre Pepi II Nitocris Senusret I Ahmose I Amenhotep I Thutmose II Hatshepsut Thutmose III Amenhotep II Amenhotep III Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten Neferneferuaten Tutankhamun Ramses I Seti I Ramses II Merenptah Twosret Ramses III Xerxes I Cleopatra VII

​

 

[genuineoriginal]

Actually, in the text you quoted, we find neither the phrase "worshiped him as lord", nor the phrase "worshiped him as God". Instead, we read that the man called Jesus "Lord", and that "he worshiped him".

Thank you for proving that I am right when I keep saying that you are being a fool.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Same term is applied to worship of The Father....is The Father, Lord or God?

Sarah called Abraham "lord", does that mean Abraham is God?

Genesis 18:12 12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?​

 

[glorydaz]

It's paramount, when reading the Bible to understand what is being said, and to whom.

In John 14 Jesus is speaking to his apostles, immediately following the "last supper".

Exactly. That is not you.

 

[genuineoriginal]

In John 14 Jesus is speaking to his apostles, immediately following the "last supper".

Exactly. That is not you.

You think the things Jesus told His disciples do not apply to the rest of us?

Matthew 28:19-20 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

 

[Dartman]

right...just like when He told Israel to murder...that abrogated the “thou shalt not” about it all right?...or when He told Hosea to marry an adulteress that changed the law for woman that they can now sleep around once married eh?...

The Mosaic Law stayed in effect until Christ, the blood of the New Testament, was shed on the cross. Then it was "fulfilled", "done away", "finished".

Speaking of Moses he did allow for divorce...But some maintain the original one man one wife remains...

So hang on...when was that New Covenant written?...[/quote]Jesus confirmed the New Covenant, and taught the New Covenant ..... WHILE keeping the Mosaic Law. The New Covenant could NOT come into effect while "the testator liveth"

Heb 9:16-17
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

He taught and lived the OT and even instructed to do as they teach from Moses’ seat just don’t do what they do...as they just don’t do what they preach...

No, he taught the New Covenant, and pointed out the failures of the Jews regarding the Mosaic Law. The Mosaic Law was still in effect until after Jesus died.

Where did He teach or demonstrate the change any changes?

Matt 5-7 for starters, Mark 10:1-10, are some other examples.

John 14 Jesus makes it VERY clear the apostles were supposed to keep, and teach, Christ's commandments, which Jesus received from his God, ........ NOT Moses' commandments.

Paul kept the festivals Peter even kosher...the goyim crowded the synagogues every Eabbath to hear moses preached and read in every city...

This is not quite accurate, your use of "kosher" isn't supported in the NT.
The New Testament allows for the liberty to respect Jewish customs, in order to convert the Jews;

1 Cor 9:20-22 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

The New Testament replaced the Old covenant NOT HIS LAW...

The 10 commandments are no longer valid as such,
2 Cor 3:7-9 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

The Mosiac Covenant of course was made with the Hebrews in Egypt as their forefathers were never in need of saving from slavery in Egypt...duh

Your attempt to minimize the purpose of the covenant is either an intentional smoke screen ..... or you need to re-read the text.
I am going to assume you did NOT intentionally try to distort the truth, and that you simply don't know the text;

Deut 5:1-22 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and observe to do them.
2 Jehovah our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 Jehovah made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4 Jehovah spake with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

So, Jehovah's speech WAS the covenant made with Israel!

And, what did Jehovah SAY?

5 (I stood between Jehovah and you at that time, to show you the word of Jehovah: for ye were afraid because of the fire, and went not up into the mount saying,
6 I am Jehovah thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
7 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
8 Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, (nor) any likeness (of anything) that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
9 thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I, Jehovah, thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me;
10 and showing lovingkindness unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
11 Thou shalt not take the name of Jehovah thy God in vain: for Jehovah will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12 Observe the sabbath day, to keep it holy, as Jehovah thy God commanded thee.
13 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work;
14 but the seventh day is a sabbath unto Jehovah thy God: (in it) thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thine ox, nor thine ***, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy man-servant and thy maid-servant may rest as well as thou.
15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and Jehovah thy God brought thee out thence by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm: therefore Jehovah thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
16 Honor thy father and thy mother, as Jehovah thy God commanded thee; that thy days may be long, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which Jehovah thy God giveth thee.
17 Thou shalt not kill.
18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
19 Neither shalt thou steal.
20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor.
21 Neither shalt thou covet thy neighbor's wife; neither shalt thou desire thy neighbor's house, his field, or his man-servant, or his maid-servant, his ox, or his ***, or anything that is thy neighbor's.
22 These words Jehovah spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them upon two tables of stone, and gave them unto me.

 

[glorydaz]

​

You think the things Jesus told His disciples do not apply to the rest of us?

Matthew 28:19-20 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

Did they go out and teach all nations? No, they remained in Jerusalem.

Acts 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.​

There is a reason for that, GO.

 

[glorydaz]

Thank you for proving that I am right when I keep saying that you are being a fool.

Words matter. You should listen to them.

 

[glorydaz]

​

:rotfl: Keep denying the truth.

Try presenting some evidence of what you claim...instead of these little jabs. opcorn:

 

[7djengo7]

Try asking a better question that does not expose your stupidity.

Here is a list of some of the rulers of all of Egypt.
Have fun.

25 Famous Pharaohs Narmer King Menes Djoser Snefru Khufu Khafre Neferefre Pepi II Nitocris Senusret I Ahmose I Amenhotep I Thutmose II Hatshepsut Thutmose III Amenhotep II Amenhotep III Amenhotep IV/Akhenaten Neferneferuaten Tutankhamun Ramses I Seti I Ramses II Merenptah Twosret Ramses III Xerxes I Cleopatra VII

​

You're still stonewalling against the questions I asked you.

Is THE ruler of all of Egypt equal to THE ruler of all of Egypt? Yes or No?
Is THE ruler of all of Egypt THE ruler of all of Egypt? Yes or No?

Happy stonewalling!

 

[7djengo7]

Thank you for proving that I am right when I keep saying that you are being a fool.

Thank you for continuing to stonewall against the questions I've asked you.