Is the New Covenant for non Jews?

C

clefty

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
The Sabbath commandment was according to the Mosaic covenant, often called the law of Moses. And the Gentiles were never under the law:

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)" (Ro.2:14-15).​
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Sure they were...it is written right in there...strangers are to receive rest too...and the animals even...

And well by nature people need rest...and do rest...and we establish the law is why we go to all nations and make disciples baptizing etc...is why the gospel contains His Law as He demonstrated in His living...and now goyim have the law...His law...and thus His people still have a sabbatismos Heb 4:9 but either you see yourself as part of His people distinct and given a perpetual sign or you don’t...
 
C

clefty

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
The Sabbath commandment was according to the Mosaic covenant, often called the law of Moses. And the Gentiles were never under the law:

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)" (Ro.2:14-15).​
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Note as well that James assumed and expected the crowding gentiles to continue to hear Moses read to them EVERY SABBATH...

So after not only bringing the gentiles “under the Law” by forcing them to 1. Not be sexually immoral 2. Not bring food offered to idols to synagogue potlucks 3. Not bring/eat meat with blood in it 4. Not bring/eat meat which was strangled...James concludes the Jerusalem council with the understanding Moses will be read to them crowding goyim in every city on EVERY SABBATH...

Oh and please don’t argue that by killing swine properly and draining it of its blood makes it clean to eat...


Also do you think a goy who insisted on making idols or killing or stealing would be “kosher” for fellowship with them or would that goy be asked to stop or at least scale it down a little? You know, live more in line with how He did and NOT like the world around them...


And oh yeah BTW:


all four of these requirements of fellowship given to the crowding goyim by the Jerusalem council WERE ALREADY IN THE OT LAW for goyim...the irony

1. abstain from food polluted by idols-Leviticus 17:8-9 "Say to them: 'Any Israelite or any alien living among them who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice and does not bring it to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting to sacrifice it to the LORD--that man must be cut off from his people.' " To guard carefully against idolatry, this command was interpreted by the Jews to prohibit eating any meat that had been offered in a prohibited manner. In Rev. 2:14, 20 the words of Jesus show agreement with that interpretation.

2. from sexual immorality-Leviticus 18:6-26 lists a wide range of sexually immoral activities and ends with, "The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things,"


3. from the meat of strangled animals-Leviticus 17:13,15 "Any Israelite or any alien living among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,
"Anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean." These were interpreted by the Jews to prohibit eating the meat of strangled animals.

4. and from blood-Leviticus 17:10 "Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood--I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people."

And you still think goyim “were never under the law”...?

I mean it says so right there in the Sabbath commandment...I mean even animals were given a Sabbath rest...you think goyim weren’t?

...it is clear James expected crowding goyim to continue to hear Moses read every Sabbath...and Paul told the Corinthians to celebrate (NOT ABOLISH IT OR REPLACE IT) the festival of unleavened bread with the new unleavened bread of spirit and truth...and John writing to goyim much later affirmed to keep the commandments and walk even as He walked...

Because...

Leviticus 19:34
The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.

Exodus 12:49
"The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you."

Leviticus 24:22
'There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the LORD your God.'"

Numbers 9:14
Verse Concepts
'If an alien sojourns among you and observes the Passover to the LORD, according to the statute of the Passover and according to its ordinance, so he shall do; you shall have one statute, both for the alien and for the native of the land.'"

Numbers 15:14
'If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, just as you do so he shall do.

Numbers 15:15
'As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the alien who sojourns with you, a perpetual statute throughout your generations; as you are, so shall the alien be before the LORD.

Numbers 15:16
'There is to be one law and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you.'"

Numbers 15:29
'You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them.

Deuteronomy 1:16
"Then I charged your judges at that time, saying, 'Hear the cases between your fellow countrymen, and judge righteously between a man and his fellow countryman, or the alien who is with him.

Deuteronomy 24:14
"You shall not oppress a hired servant who is poor and needy, whether he is one of your countrymen or one of your aliens who is in your land in your towns.

Leviticus 18:26
'But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you

Exodus 12:19
'Seven days there shall be no leaven found in your houses; for whoever eats what is leavened, that person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is an alien or a native of the land.

Exodus 20:10
but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.

Deuteronomy 5:14
but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter or your male servant or your female servant or your ox or your donkey or any of your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you, so that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.

Leviticus 16:29
"This shall be a permanent statute for you: in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall humble your souls and not do any work, whether the native, or the alien who sojourns among you;

There are even more texts to see how other lands around them cleaned up and joined them...

But here we see WHY jews hostile to the idea of goyim crowding their synagogues every Sabbath to hear Moses would wish to REPLACE that wall between jew and gentile which IN HIM was abolished

These judiazers were not teaching what was previously taught but that goyim had to do certain things to not only fellowship with jews but be saved...a yoke NEVER TAUGHT in the OT

But I understand your desire to stick to man’s tradition and racism is stronger than being grafted into His people...as IN HIM there no longer is jew nor gentile but a new creature...a sovereign citizen of Israel one law one people...His people

As Isaiah affirms His is a house of prayer for ALL nations...to worship Him Sabbath to Sabbath

Don’t get MAD...
 
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Aaron the Tall

Aaron the Tall

Member
john w said:
No, it does not/yes, I am:

6 that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Verse 6 does not say "that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs with Israel, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel"

No ms. of the scriptures has "with Israel."
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You don't think "with Israel" is implied? What then does it mean for Gentiles to be fellow heirs? Fellow heirs with who?

Doesn't Galatians 3:29 make it clear that Gentiles are Abraham's heirs?

Furthermore, Galatians 4:30,31 make it clear who will share in the inheritance: children of promise.

Old Covenant = children of Hagar = Jews who cling to the Law and reject Christ = will NEVER share in the inheritance

New Covenant = children of promise = Jews & Gentiles who receive Christ = heirs who receive the inheritance
 
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Right Divider

Body part
Aaron the Tall said:
You don't think "with Israel" is implied? What then does it mean for Gentiles to be fellow heirs? Fellow heirs with who?
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With believing Israelite's apart from Israel (i.e., the body of Christ).

The gospel of the grace of God is free to all apart from Israel, apart from the covenants, apart from the law, etc. etc. etc.

Aaron the Tall said:
Doesn't Galatians 3:29 make it clear that Gentiles are Abraham's heirs?
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Not all gentiles.

Aaron the Tall said:
Furthermore, Galatians 4:30,31 make it clear who will share in the inheritance: children of promise.

Old Covenant = children of Hagar = Jews who cling to the Law and reject Christ = will NEVER share in the inheritance

New Covenant = children of promise = Jews & Gentiles who receive Christ = heirs who receive the inheritance
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You are mashing the scriptures into a mess.

You are reading your bias into Galatians 4. There are more than two covenants in the Bible and Galatians 4 is NOT talking about the new covenant per Jeremiah 31 (and quoted in Hebrews 8).

Why don't you believe Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8? They are completely clear and unambiguous.

The covenants that Paul is talking about in Galatians 4 are explained in Galatians 3.

Gal 3:17-18 KJV​
(17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.​
(18) For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.​

He is talking about the covenant of the law and another one that came earlier.
 
C

clefty

New member
Aaron the Tall said:
You don't think "with Israel" is implied? What then does it mean for Gentiles to be fellow heirs? Fellow heirs with who?

Doesn't Galatians 3:29 make it clear that Gentiles are Abraham's heirs?

Furthermore, Galatians 4:30,31 make it clear who will share in the inheritance: children of promise.

Old Covenant = children of Hagar = Jews who cling to the Law and reject Christ = will NEVER share in the inheritance

New Covenant = children of promise = Jews & Gentiles who receive Christ = heirs who receive the inheritance
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Paul is quite clear...to Romans...

Not only do we replace branches cut off for their transgression and rejection of the covenant but we are not to boast lest we be cut off as they are...

And our love should cause them such jealousy they would seek to be grafted in again...

These Zionists are MAD I tells ya...denying jews are rejected and there is no more holiness in their land or its temple but also rejecting we goyim are new creatures and sovereign citizens of Israel...by promise as even Isaac was...
 
Aaron the Tall

Aaron the Tall

Member
john w said:
Established, does not mean enacted. The New Covenant was ratified, 2000+ years ago, but its inauguration, institution, enactment, "establishment," awaits "the second time"(Acts 7:13 KJV, Hebrews 9:28 KJV), during "the times of refreshing"(Acts 3:19 KJV), when the Deliverer returns......

Romans 11 KJV
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
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I don't see anything about a delayed inauguration in those first 3 passages you mentioned.

So, you think the sign that the New Covenant has been established is that all Israel will be saved?

All Israel is saved.

You think the whole geo-political genealogical nation of Israel will one day be saved?

Paul didn't think so: "Though the number of Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only the remnant will be saved." (Rom 9:27)

The point of Romans 9-11 is to address the objection: If God promised to save Israel, why have they largely rejected their savior? Has the promise failed?

Paul's response = no the promise has not failed, it must be properly understood:

1.) Israel should be understood as the descendants of Isaac, who are children of promise, not determined by DNA (Rom 9:7-8)

2.) Even though the genetic Jews have largely rejected Christ, there is a remnant who have accepted Christ. (Rom 11:5) The remnant are members of the true Israel.

Paul's statement in 11:26 must be understood in light of these premises. "And so all Israel will be saved." And so = in this manner. This is a statement of HOW the promise is fulfilled, not of WHEN the promise is fulfilled.

Again, the question Paul is addressing is: why isn't all Israel saved if God promised to save Israel.

The answer: 1.) the remnant is saved or is being saved 2.) Gentiles are being grafted in to God's people

It is in this manner that all Israel will be saved.
 
Aaron the Tall

Aaron the Tall

Member
john w said:
No, your weighing in here, without scriptural quotes, "connecting the dots," is merely opinion, and irrelevant.

You lied-members of the boc have no part in the New Covenant, as it was not promised to them, thief:


Romans 9:4 who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Ephesians 2:12 KJV that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

What is your motivation, for lying, grand theft?
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At that time ye were strangers from the covenants of promise...
But now in Christ Jesus ye who once were far away have been brought near.

Don't forget the "but".
 
Aaron the Tall

Aaron the Tall

Member
Jerry Shugart said:
The "fathers" of those of the house of Israel and Judah who will partake of the New Covenant were the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Jer.31:32). Since their fathers were the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that can only mean that those who will partake of the New Covenant will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
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How much Abrahamic DNA is required to partake in the New Covenant? 50%? 5%?

The message of John the Baptist, Jesus, and Paul resonate with the message: genetic linkage to Abraham profits nothing.

God could make descendants of Abraham out of rocks - which clearly don't have any Abrahamic DNA.
 
C

clefty

New member
Genetics stopped mattering when Sarah was too old to make eggs...it was by divine intervention that Israel was even possible...Isaac a promise not by man alone

Jacob was named Israel not by man alone...that alone proves the spirituality of Israel...by Him...He names His own

Israel was saved by faith not genes...and many went with them into the wilderness not genetically linked and were also saved...

And once saved Israel was THEN given the Law...faith first then works...His works
 
C

clefty

New member
musterion said:
And that by grace, not by covenant.
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Brought near to Yah yes...

But NOT in their found fallen status...the covenant protected them FROM Him His Wrath as they were in sin and HE HATES SIN...in His son they are passed over

because of the His covenant grace was gifted just like Adam and Eve were spared...
 
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