Theology Club: Is the Future Open?

[Jerry Shugart]

Ask Him

I did and He said that He knows, according to His foreknowledge, that you will answer the question as soon as you read my reply.

So you know that it is impossible for you not to answer at this time.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Each person lives their lives and makes decisions according to their own free will. God simply knows what the outcome will be. This does not hint that God forces any particular outcome. God does have FOREKNOWLEDGE of all.

Since you have it all figured out why do you continue to refuse to answer my question here:

You did not say whether or not you can act in anyway that goes contrary to what He knows about your future.

Can you?​

 

[intojoy]

Is the Future Open?

Just a little question for you, my favorite robot. If all things were set in stone even before the creation that only some men would be saved then why did the Lord Jesus taste death for every man?:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).​

Ok I'll play.

This is very simple when we take what scripture says.

He tasted death for all mankind because all mankind is born condemned with the sin of Adam. God did it be to fair I suppose?

 

[intojoy]

Since you have it all figured out why do you continue to refuse to answer my question here:

You did not say whether or not you can act in anyway that goes contrary to what He knows about your future.



Can you?​

No.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

He tasted death for all mankind because all mankind is born condemned with the sin of Adam. God did it be to fair I suppose?

In what way was it fair?

 

[intojoy]

In what way was it fair?

Ask Him

 

[intojoy]

In what way was it fair?

Why is universal death fair?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Ask Him

I want to ask you something else. Was the Lord Jesus' foreknowledge limited in some way before He even came down to the earth?

It must have been since He did not know the day and the hour spoken of here, even though the Father knew:

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Mt.24:36).​

 

[intojoy]

I want to ask you something else. Was the Lord Jesus' foreknowledge limited in some way before He even came down to the earth?



It must have been since He did not know the day and the hour spoken of here, even though the Father knew:

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Mt.24:36).​

Was the Lord Jesus' foreknowledge limited in some way


before (key word jerry)


He even came down to the earth?

Never.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Was the Lord Jesus' foreknowledge limited in some way


before (key word jerry)


He even came down to the earth?

Never.

So before He came down to the earth He knew the day and the hour but while on the earth he developed a case of amnesia and no longer knew it?

 

[intojoy]

So before He came down to the earth He knew the day and the hour but while on the earth he developed a case of amnesia and no longer knew it?

No

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No

Then how do you explain the idea that before He came to the earth He knew the day and the hour and then while on the earth He no longer knew it?

 

[intojoy]

Then how do you explain the idea that before He came to the earth He knew the day and the hour and then while on the earth He no longer knew it?

Easy

 

[intojoy]

He placed a self limitation upon Himself

 

[Jerry Shugart]

He placed a self limitation upon Himself

Did that self limitation of which you speak include being able to forget things He already knew?

 

[intojoy]

Did that self limitation of which you speak include being able to forget things He already knew?

The fact is that Yeshua was in submission to his mother and step father, two inferiors had authority over Him. When Yeshua was young he had to learn to walk, talk, eat drink.

Yeshua had to learn the scriptures as a man. The adding of humanity was as real as it could get, He was fully man. The omniscience of the Father was not with the Son during His earthly ministry because Yeshua had to be taught the Word of God. This is what was revealed by Isaiah the prophet:

The Lord G od has given Me the tongue of disciples, That I may know how to sustain the weary one with a word. He awakens Me morning by morning, He awakens My ear to listen as a disciple. The Lord G od has opened My ear; And I was not disobedient Nor did I turn back. (Isaiah 50:4, 5 NASB)

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The fact is that Yeshua was in submission to his mother and step father, two inferiors had authority over Him. When Yeshua was young he had to learn to walk, talk, eat drink.

Yeshua had to learn the scriptures as a man. The adding of humanity was as real as it could get, He was fully man. The omniscience of the Father was not with the Son during His earthly ministry because Yeshua had to be taught the Word of God. This is what was revealed by Isaiah the prophet:

The Lord G od has given Me the tongue of disciples, That I may know how to sustain the weary one with a word. He awakens Me morning by morning, He awakens My ear to listen as a disciple. The Lord G od has opened My ear; And I was not disobedient Nor did I turn back. (Isaiah 50:4, 5 NASB)

OK, I can agree with that.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

The fact is that Yeshua was in submission to his mother and step father, two inferiors had authority over Him. When Yeshua was young he had to learn to walk, talk, eat drink.

Yeshua had to learn the scriptures as a man. The adding of humanity was as real as it could get, He was fully man. The omniscience of the Father was not with the Son during His earthly ministry because Yeshua had to be taught the Word of God. This is what was revealed by Isaiah the prophet:

The Lord G od has given Me the tongue of disciples, That I may know how to sustain the weary one with a word. He awakens Me morning by morning, He awakens My ear to listen as a disciple. The Lord G od has opened My ear; And I was not disobedient Nor did I turn back. (Isaiah 50:4, 5 NASB)

Eureka! Jerry agrees with someone. :thumb:

 

[Lighthouse]

The verse I quoted demonstrates that God is not bound by time, as we are. After all, would we not be foolish to say that a day with us is as a thousand years but concurrent to that a thousand years with us is as one day?

The verse demonstrates no such thing and claiming it does does not make it so.

I can honestly say that I have experienced hours that seemed to last mere minutes and other minutes that seemed to last five. God can say that about a millennium vs a day because He has been around for eternity, not because He is outside of time, which doesn't even exist physically so as to be something which one can be outside of.

No, it is not irrational but instead according to Scriptures:

"He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time" (2 Tim. 1:9).​

Look at the original language: the word translated here as time does not translate as such. The translator assumed that before the world began there was no time and thus translated his own bias into it.
​

In fact, the word in the original Greek is αἰώνιος which is defined as:

without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be without beginning without end, never to cease, everlasting

Which shows that any translation that insinuates that time began at some point is in error.

This shows God existing in the eternal state, before the beginning of time. You have not yet even provided one verse which demonstates that the Lord has always existed concurrent with "time."

I never said God didn't exist in an eternal state. My argument is that time does as well, as a result of God's existence.

Here is another verse that demonstates that God's exists outside of time:

"in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time" (Titus 1:2).​

Again the same word was used by Paul here.

And you can see on this page that it does not translate into "before time began." It's the second word down.

P.S.
"demonstrate/s" has an 'r' in it.

 

[intojoy]

Yea he probably spelled that word wrong so many times that his tablet auto spells it wrong for him now