Theology Club: Is the Future Open?

[journey]

So if you are right and God has a foreknowledge of all things. And since God cannot be wrong about what he knows, then all human actions will turn out only one way.

And if this is true then how can people really have a will that can be called a "free will" since the future can turn out only one way?

How would you answer that question?

I think that I've already answered this question. God's FOREKNOWLEDGE does not limit my free will to choose, but God does know what my future holds. I don't know what my future decisions will be, but God does. This doesn't hint that God makes things turn out a particular way. I'm happy to serve an all-knowing God.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

God's FOREKNOWLEDGE does not limit my free will to choose, but God does know what my future holds.

According to your ideas God knows, according to His foreknowledge, what your future will be then is it possible for you to act in anyway that goes contrary to what He knows about your future?

 

[journey]

According to your ideas God knows, according to His foreknowledge, what your future will be then it is possible for you to act in anyway that goes contrary to what He knows about your future?

I don't know the future, and I certainly don't know what God knows. It doesn't bother me a bit for God to know what I'll be doing this time next year or where I'll be. I've already said at least twice that God has FOREKNOWLEDGE of all. You're asking me if I can act contrary to things I don't know about yet. How would I know what would be contrary? I choose how to lead my life, and God has FOREKNOWLEDGE of what I'll do. The answer is that God knows what my future holds. I won't be able to surprise God with what I do or don't do.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I don't know the future, and I certainly don't know what God knows. It doesn't bother me a bit for God to know what I'll be doing this time next year or where I'll be. I've already said at least twice that God has FOREKNOWLEDGE of all. You're asking me if I can act contrary to things I don't know about yet. How would I know what would be contrary? I choose how to lead my life, and God has FOREKNOWLEDGE of what I'll do. The answer is that God knows what my future holds. I won't be able to surprise God with what I do or don't do.

That does not answer my question. Here it is again:

According to your ideas God knows, according to His foreknowledge, what your future will be then is it possible for you to act in anyway that goes contrary to what He knows about your future?​

 

[intojoy]

I acknowledge that Anderson's calculations were not correct. However, there have been many who spotted his error before Arnold:



http://www.pickle-publishing.com/papers/sir-robert-anderson.htm



But I doubt if Arnold has the right dates. I know that the much praised book on this out of Dallas Theological Seminary (Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ by Harold Hoehner) got it wrong.

But you'd never heard of Arnold before me right?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

But you'd never heard of Arnold before me right?

Wrong. I have been aware of Arnold for many years. In fact, I am a friend of someone who gave him a pair of cowboy boots a few years back.

 

[intojoy]

Wrong. I have been aware of Arnold for many years. In fact, I am a friend of someone who gave him a pair of cowboy boots a few years back.

What have you read?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What have you read?

I have quoted him on my site in regard to the relationship between the New Covenant promised to Israel and the Body of Christ:

Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum understands that there will be a "national regeneration" of Israel, writing that "The basis of Israel's final regeneration is the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34...The result of the New Covenant will be a total national regeneration of Israel...That Israel was to undergo a national regeneration is not confined to the words of the New Covenant alone. The truths of the New Covenant are greatly elaborated by various prophets" [emphasis added] (Fruchtenbaum, Israel in the Messianic Kingdom).

http://www.twonewcovenants.com/covenant/covenant4.html

 

[intojoy]

Ok so you have your own site now? Hmmm why are talking to me (a bloody commoner) then haha?

 

[intojoy]

Okay I just toured your site, you're storin' up bowls of wrath for yourself buddy.

Just kidding. I'm glad you have your own work even tho I don't agree with some things. I wish I had guys like you here in Honolulu to fellowship with. There are sound believers here but it's limited...to myself

 

[journey]

That does not answer my question. Here it is again:

According to your ideas God knows, according to His foreknowledge, what your future will be then is it possible for you to act in anyway that goes contrary to what He knows about your future?​

I've answered the question three times, so see my previous posts. I'm not going to let you put words in my mouth. God has FOREKNOWLEDGE of all.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I've answered the question three times, so see my previous posts. I'm not going to let you put words in my mouth. God has FOREKNOWLEDGE of all.

You did not say whether or not you can act in anyway that goes contrary to what He knows about your future.

Can you?

 

[intojoy]

You did not say whether or not you can act in anyway that goes contrary to what He knows about your future.



Can you?

No you can't

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I'll check out the threads.

Whose the pic of in Jerry's avatar?

Is that who he thinks he is now?

Robert Anderson, who was an ultra-dispensationalist.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Well I would start by noting that your assumption God can be wrong will be taken to task by the open theist who claims God is just so smart He can probabilistically figure things out.

I never said nor hinted that God can be wrong!

I challenge you to quote me saying such a thing!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No you can't

Thanks, you little robot!

 

[intojoy]

Thanks, you little robot!

No problem c3po

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No problem c3po

Just a little question for you, my favorite robot. If all things were set in stone even before the creation that only some men would be saved then why did the Lord Jesus taste death for every man?:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).​

 

[intojoy]

Ask Him

 

[journey]

Each person lives their lives and makes decisions according to their own free will. God simply knows what the outcome will be. This does not hint that God forces any particular outcome. God does have FOREKNOWLEDGE of all.