Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

Ask Mr. Religion

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AMR,
Very good! You write what I think. One important question is, how many will understand this?

This is really what Paul meant about meat understanding.
I doubt milkshake gets it?

Heh.

It is indeed a difficult topic, very meaty. ;)

No one will ever be able to fully apprehend the whole truths of the matter. Of course, that does not mean we should cease to strive to learn as much as we are able about this wonderful teaching from Scripture. Not a day passes that I do not learn something new as I continue my lifelong love affair with theology proper (being, attributes, and works of God) topics.

AMR
 

Ktoyou

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You are with us too, then. That's not how your friends read. That's what we are talking about.

I accept other members stages. Loss is not so easy, as to overlook it. Imagine the feeling of loss thinking you won the billion dollar lottery, then claiming the winnings, you realise you had the wrong number.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
God does not cause you pain. It is not like having eternal pain, it's about loss.

I know plenty about loss and just how much that's hurt and debilitated, so that's not much of an argument to be honest K. I'm sure you've suffered your own in turn but if 'hell' is about such then that is torment, impure and simple. What is the point in it? To have creatures suffer in some way without respite or purpose? Nobody comes into this world through choice and life has plenty of pain in physical and psychological ways as it is let alone a "hell".
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
I accept other members stages. Loss is not so easy, as to overlook it. Imagine the feeling of loss thinking you won the billion dollar lottery, then claiming the winnings, you realise you had the wrong number.

That would be a bummer...

:chuckle:
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Heh.

It is indeed a difficult topic, very meaty. ;)

No one will ever be able to fully apprehend the whole truths of the matter. Of course, that does not mean we should cease to strive to learn as much as we are able about this wonderful teaching from Scripture. Not a day passes that I do not learn something new as I continue my lifelong love affair with theology proper (being, attributes, and works of God) topics.

AMR

agree. Taking Jesus as God on faith is better than allowing the failed logic of mind to keep salvation at bay.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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God does not cause you pain. It is not like having eternal pain, it's about loss.
Sometimes figuratives are used to represent something that cannot be communicated to mere mortals. What hell is really like is one such example and it is not a literal place of fire and brimstone, or where we are on the rack being live dissected by demons. There will be pain, but not in the sense of pain inflicted by torture methods imagined in the movies.

Consider that of all torments common to mankind, the burning by fire is the worst. Those who experience the reality of hell would probably find it much worse than mere fire.

Quote properly speaking, Hell is a place of perfect malice and alienation.

I cannot even begin to imagine the horrors of eternal death (nor do I wish to). It is enough for me to heed Scripture's warning to "flee from the wrath to come." No matter the mental analogues we may dream up, or find outlined in Scripture, I am confident that if "no eye hath seen nor ear heard" what joys lie in store for God's chosen children, then the same sort of expression—no eye hath seen nor ear heard—may be said in contradistinction regarding what is lies store for those in Hell.

Per Scripture, their bodies will be "raised to dishonor" eternally (1 Cor. 15). So just magnify all the negative feelings—of both body and spirit—that you have ever experienced, and you will likely have only some vague notion of the pain, shame, and rage of those creatures permanently and perfectly at enmity with their Creator.

AMR
 

meshak

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Does mercy triumph over judgment? Paying for actions, sure, but eternally? God can't forgive an agnostic for not having faith?

God is for everyone. Why do you think it is ok to kill anyone and get away with it?

No one gets away without paying the consequences for your cruel action to others.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
God is for everyone. Why do you think it is ok to kill anyone and get away with it?

No one gets away without paying the consequences for your cruel action to others.

I don't. I was asking you why an agnostic has to be snuffed out for not having faith in this life. Hardly seems very loving to me but hey...
 

meshak

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I don't. I was asking you why an agnostic has to be snuffed out for not having faith in this life. Hardly seems very loving to me but hey...

It is because Jesus teachings is love, and without His teachings we cause others and ourselves suffering.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
It is because Jesus teachings is love, and without His teachings we cause others and ourselves suffering.

Love takes into account people's foibles doesn't it? If you're advocating that God kills people for having doubts then what's loving about that?
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Ok, but why do you think God simply kills off unbelievers for not having faith? Does love only extend so far?

If anything, an honest agnostic would probably be treated with more tenderness and civility than a raging religious maniac bent on dogma or obsessed with the 'belief' of hellfire and brimstone. At last an agnostic honestly admits/recognizes he doesnt know, and leaves it at that, while remaining OPEN to be shown otherwise, or to learn what is really 'true'. - Meanwhile some religious nuts create their own 'hell' by their own belief-systems which oppress and distort their own sanity.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
You keep forget God is also Just.

Indeed, a perfect DEITY has both qualities/attributes of justice and mercy, and rules his creation by LOVE and WISDOM. - this means every soul is given all the space and time (opportunity) to choose what it wants, and to realize the full consequences for choices made. All the while, 'God' within his divine providence is ruling and making judgments in perfect fairness and equity. God continues being merciful and just thru-out, no matter the free will choices of individuals, so that while all continues on by God's grace, there is also results of free will, and the ultimate ends of certain actions further mediated by laws that condition and modify certain outcomes.

Hence, within the balance of living, there is 'life' and 'death', - the ultimate end of a soul's choice will be towards either condition,....since figuratively speaking...'hell' is a kind of 'death',..while 'heaven' is a condition of 'life'. - everything inbetween is experienced thru relativity.
 

meshak

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Banned
Would you consider it unjust for God not to kill an honest person who had doubts? Otherwise freelight has answered you on the matter.

You can consider all you want but no one should that on anyone. Christians are supposed to be Jesus' follower. If we cannot trust His word we are not Christians anymore.

Jesus says I am the way. I believe that. And I also know His teachings are love. The world is chaos because too many people don't trust His word and practice what He teaches.
 
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