Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[Derf]

Symbolic for-- As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those destroyed in the lake of fire, miss each new day, miss each new day of Gods loving kindness, it never ends-likened to be eternal suffering. But a single teaching proves 100% it is symbolism= A place where the worm ( Maggot) dieth not----- No worm( maggot) could survive an hour in a hot firey place, proving its symbolic. Not to mention only a sadist could create an eternal suffering, one who would throw justice away--Thats not the true God-Deut 32:4-- only the blind guides who do not know God teach it is literal--The true God set-LIFE or DEATH before all-Deut 30:19--both are eternal.

No, the first death is not eternal, all are resurrected from it. At that time death is swallowed up in victory, and itself destroyed in the lake of fire. After that, the alternative for not being in the Lamb's book of life is the second death--something different than the first death, since "death" has already been swallowed up in victory and destroyed. Death has no more power over anyone. Therefore this second death is necessary for all who refuse to abide by the King's wishes, because they won't be welcome in the King's kingdom. But if the resurrected have immortal bodies now, then "their worm dies not". They have no escape.

 

[kjw47]

No, the first death is not eternal, all are resurrected from it. At that time death is swallowed up in victory, and itself destroyed in the lake of fire. After that, the alternative for not being in the Lamb's book of life is the second death--something different than the first death, since "death" has already been swallowed up in victory and destroyed. Death has no more power over anyone. Therefore this second death is necessary for all who refuse to abide by the King's wishes, because they won't be welcome in the King's kingdom. But if the resurrected have immortal bodies now, then "their worm dies not". They have no escape.

I know the first death is not the lasting death. A resurrection is promised, not at death but after the 1000 year reign of Christ after Armageddon. Rev 20:12--The darkness teaches it occurs at death and they go to heaven, its not truth.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I know the first death is not the lasting death. A resurrection is promised, not at death but after the 1000 year reign of Christ after Armageddon. Rev 20:12--The darkness teaches it occurs at death and they go to heaven, its not truth.

News flash: People are cast into the lake of fire AFTER they are resurrected, not before.

 

[Derf]

I know the first death is not the lasting death. A resurrection is promised, not at death but after the 1000 year reign of Christ after Armageddon. Rev 20:12--The darkness teaches it occurs at death and they go to heaven, its not truth.

Then you can see how they can't die anymore, because they've been resurrected in immortal bodies?

 

[kjw47]

News flash: People are cast into the lake of fire AFTER they are resurrected, not before.

Everyone knows that--The lake of fire = The second death= permanent Rev 20:14, Rev 21:8

 

[kjw47]

Then you can see how they can't die anymore, because they've been resurrected in immortal bodies?

No where does it say they will be resurrected in immortal bodies. Where do you get that? The angels were given immortal bodies-The fallen ones will die in the lake of fire.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Everyone knows that--The lake of fire = The second death= permanent Rev 20:14, Rev 21:8

Yes, separation from God when He casts people into the lake of fire to live apart from him is indeed permanent.

 

[way 2 go]

No where does it say they will be resurrected in immortal bodies. Where do you get that?

Christians get resurrected bodies

but the dead
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The angels were given immortal bodies-

spirits are immortal

dead and still existing
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

The fallen ones will die in the lake of fire.

it doesn't say that

without spiritual life one is dead
Eph 2:1 And He has made you alive, who were once dead in trespasses and sins,

the second death is like the first death existing but dead
which is why you can't show annihilation and we can show everlasting punishment

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

 

[Derf]

No where does it say they will be resurrected in immortal bodies. Where do you get that? The angels were given immortal bodies-The fallen ones will die in the lake of fire.

Matthew 22:30 (KJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 

[kjw47]

Christians get resurrected bodies

but the dead
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And the books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

spirits are immortal

dead and still existing
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.


it doesn't say that

without spiritual life one is dead
Eph 2:1 And He has made you alive, who were once dead in trespasses and sins,

the second death is like the first death existing but dead
which is why you can't show annihilation and we can show everlasting punishment

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

Lazarus= more symbolism. If one could look down and see their loved ones suffering, it would be kind of hard to be happy. It would cause pain to those hearts and Revelation assures--mourning outcry or pain, even death will be no more. Rev 21:4

 

[kjw47]

Matthew 22:30 (KJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Speaking of the little flock( Luke 12:32)=144,000( Rev 14:3)= the bride of Christ. It is not speaking of the great crowd which no man can number.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Lazarus= more symbolism.

Baseless claim.

If one could look down and see their loved ones suffering,

Why do you think that people in heaven are concerned with what's going on Earthside, when there are so many people to interact with, not to mention their Creator?

it would be kind of hard to be happy.

No one, not even the Bible, says there won't be pain in Heaven.

It would cause pain to those hearts and Revelation assures--mourning outcry or pain, even death will be no more. Rev 21:4

Revelation 21:4 says nothing of the sort.

Revelation 20:4, on the other hand, says that God will wipe away the tears, that there will be no more death, sorrow, crying, and that there SHALL BE no more pain.

Tears will exist, but the pain John wrote about was physical pain, not emotional (which is what the tears are referring to).

 

[way 2 go]

Lazarus= more symbolism. If one could look down and see their loved ones suffering, it would be kind of hard to be happy. It would cause pain to those hearts and

so you determine what is true by " if it makes you happy " it's true
so Jesus lied when he spoke of Lazarus because it doesn't make you happy.
Luke 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.

Revelation assures--mourning outcry or pain, even death will be no more. Rev 21:4

Rev 14:10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

 

[Derf]

Speaking of the little flock( Luke 12:32)=144,000( Rev 14:3)= the bride of Christ. It is not speaking of the great crowd which no man can number.

No, the resurrection speaks of two groups, comprising "all that are in the graves":
John 5:28-29 (KJV) 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[kjw47]

Baseless claim.



Why do you think that people in heaven are concerned with what's going on Earthside, when there are so many people to interact with, not to mention their Creator?



No one, not even the Bible, says there won't be pain in Heaven.



Revelation 21:4 says nothing of the sort.

Revelation 20:4, on the other hand, says that God will wipe away the tears, that there will be no more death, sorrow, crying, and that there SHALL BE no more pain.

Tears will exist, but the pain John wrote about was physical pain, not emotional (which is what the tears are referring to).

Crying sorrow etc is not showing physical pain, its showing emotional pain.

 

[kjw47]

No, the resurrection speaks of two groups, comprising "all that are in the graves":
John 5:28-29 (KJV) 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

That is the second resurrection, only the little flock goes in the first. Rev 20:6=the first resurrection-Rev 20:12 is the second-The first has already began. The second does not occur until after Armageddon.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Crying sorrow etc is not showing physical pain, its showing emotional pain.

Yes, that's what I said.

 

[Derf]

That is the second resurrection, only the little flock goes in the first. Rev 20:6=the first resurrection-Rev 20:12 is the second-The first has already began. The second does not occur until after Armageddon.

Even if we're talking about two resurrections, the second one also includes some that are in the Lamb's book of life (maybe they died during the millennium), and they come out of their graves into life, while others come out of their graves into condemnation. Both are conditions that happen in conjunction with death being cast into the lake of fire--so that kind of death is no longer available.