Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
no it is not -
executing child molesters prevents others from being molested -
eternal suffer does not -
they are already dead -
eternal suffering has purpose for you -
because -
you don't think God can destroy them -
you have no good reason to believe that -
musterion
Well-known member
They dead aren't the point.
The knowledge of judgment and condemnation, along with the conscience, has acted as a restrainer on much (not nearly all) wickedness among the living over the centuries.
do you believe God can destroy the soul? -
genuineoriginal
New member
My interpretations are based primarily on God's desires as described in the Bible, not on my desires.
From reading the Bible multiple times and attempting to understand the big picture of what God desires for mankind and from mankind, it became obvious to me that God has no desire to keep any human in perpetual torture.
Since it is not God's desire to keep anyone in perpetual torture, the people that are projecting their desires into scripture are the ones that believe in perpetual torture.
However, as I pointed out previously, perpetual torture comes from the Greek mythology about Tartarus and not the Biblical accounts of sheol and the lake of fire.
answer the question -
or -
go somewhere where you won't be confronted -
genuineoriginal
New member
The living will be the ones weeping and wailing.
As for the gnashing of teeth, what if you live long and lose your teeth. At least then you won't have to worry about gnashing them.
Instant Karma's gonna getcha ?
Derf
Well-known member
So you agree that you "talked about" the word "perish" in Lu 13:3? Do you realize that when you take a particular word from a verse and concentrate on that word--even giving the Greek for it without giving the Greek for any other word in the same verse--when you talk about the verse, that is the same as "focusing" on that word? It doesn't mean anything bad, but it is what you did, and what you said you did ('in Luke 13:3 I talked about the word perish') after you said you didn't do it ('Actually, I did not "focus on the word perish"'). This makes it hard to converse with you. I think it makes people want to throw unflattering epithets at you, too.
No, I agree that perish means "to die", but neither "perish" nor "die" seem to mean "be totally annihilated", which is what you proposed. Because in both of those case, they, likewise to everybody else, are promised a resurrection, either to life eternal or some kind of torment. Even if you don't agree with me, can you at least acknowledge that there is more yet to come for them to experience? And if there is more yet to come, then using it as a verse to say there's no eternal torment is not much help to your argument?
It is fruitless to keep saying "die means die, so therefore there is no eternal torment." It's not a sufficient argument. We are beyond that point and on to another one--discussing how "die" plays out.
It does, it's so God can really get back at those who deserve it. :rotfl:
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
"weeping and gnashing of gums" just doesn't have the same feeling, does it?
My point was that you completely ignored my comment about katakausai, and then you claimed that I "focused" on the word "perish", which I simply did not do. To focus on something is to look ONLY at that thing and nothing else. Where the Bible said "katakausai", I looked at the word katakausai. Where the Bible said "perish", I looked at perish. Your post was misleading at best. It seems that you are only focusing on the word "perish" and how you think that it might not mean perish, but you are ignoring all of the other evidence. Then you are throwing up smokescreens - "You talked about perish", trying to imply that I really did FOCUS on perish. You aren't being fair in your accusations. The reason people "throw unflattering epithets" at me, is not due to anything I've posted, it is a personal failing of those who enjoy insulting other people. You and I are better than that. We both agree that there is no reason for anyone to insult anyone else, and we both know that insults do not prove that the person being insulted is wrong.
Excuse me, but I have NEVER proposed that to "perish" or to "die" mean "to be totally annihilated".
I believe my actual claim was that to perish and to die mean "to no longer remain alive", and you can look up the meaning of perish and die in any dictionary to discover the meaning of these words.
ECTists LOVE to insert words into my mouth. Since you are not an ECTist, you do not need to make claims that I said something I never said.
The correct answer is "Yes. God certainly CAN destroy a soul."
Please refer to Matthew 10:28
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how right you are
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
genuineoriginal
New member
Not at the Judgment.
Revelation 20:13 CEB 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and Death and the Grave gave up the dead that were in them, and people were judged by what they had done. |