Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[freelight]

knowledge is key.......

knowledge is key.......

You are wrong. The apostles all taught the same.

Research shows otherwise.

I have been waiting for you to attack me personally. It is the only way people in falseness can defend their beliefs. You do not have truth on your side, so you have to personally attack with lies and slander.

No attacks where made on you personally, for 'truth' really needs no defense or 'apology'. Many scholars and authorities consider 2 Peter as 'pseudographical'(which means the real Peter did not write it, but it was merely 'attributed' to Peter, a falsely-applied authorship), and not researching the "why" behind this position is to perpetuate or to hold one's own 'ignorance' about the matter. This is self-defeating.

That is just more of your worthless opinions.

Informed opinions are preferable over uninformed 'faith' assumptions.

I do not care to go to your links.

Which shows you have no desire to learn or understand the subject or where my knowledge-base is coming from or related to...which doesnt really foster a mutually beneficial discussion, let alone a dialogue. Not learning or researching tends to keep one in the dark so to speak, - when the facts can be known, that are knowable. If you wont further educate yourself, others can access link-ports that will enhance their knowledge of the subject.

Debate here and do not bother to post links.

Links are provided to enrich the learning and dialogue-flow, which increases the value and context of the dialogue. I'm quite proficient in 'commentary', and provide ample explanations for my views in my 'writing' which is my 'craft'. However, you cannot 'debate' thoroughly with someone not willing to consider all possible points of view and most probable conclusions on a matter, when they dont avail themselves of broadening their knowledge.

Karma is the doctrine of demons.

An assertion that has no value unless it is somehow proven. Dont forget,...."whatsover a man sows, that also will he reap". - strip it down or qualify it anyway you like, its 'karma' (actions and their corresponding results). Eastern explanations may differ in some respects than an orthodox christian understanding of the 'concept', but the principle holds, and is also consonant with 'free will' and 'personal responsibility'. - carrying this onto ECT,...means God does not inflict an eternal torment or suffering on any soul, that it does not inflict upon itself when it is out of harmony with natural and spiritual laws. When the soul re-turns to 'God' and comes into harmony with Spirit, there is no 'sin' to affect anything.



pj

 

[freelight]

"what you measure out will be measured back"

"what you measure out will be measured back"

Again, karma is a doctrine of demons.

You need to actually read what is being shared with you to understand what karma is, in the way I use it within its universal-meaning context, for beginners. - or else this dialogue cant continue on in an intelligent fashion. - I've been more than charitable to articulate such, and the 'law of compensation' shared from the Padgett messages does well to put it into a 'christian-context' (linked previously here).

There is no reason for an 'aversion' towards the word 'karma', since it only indicates 'action' and its corresponding consequences, in all possible cause-effect relationships. Being a student of universal spirituality, I naturally include both eastern & western religious terms and symbols.

As long as genuine free will exists, each determine their own 'heaven' or 'hell' at any moment in time or eternity, as long as the power of such is innately and actively theirs.

The karma doctrine says those born disabled were evil people in a former life. It also says people ask for all the bad that happens to them.

The scenario you suppose above may not be true in all cases, nevertheless...what causes abnormal birth-defects or other misfortunes that are somehow allotted to peoples lives? Multiple factors in a 'conditional' sense must be involved which allow or 'determine' various life situations and circumstances, apart from some things being 'pure accidents' or 'coincidents'.

'Karma' on a simple level refers to the cause and effect of 'actions' (however one wants to explain, qualify or articulate it). - thats it in a nutshell.



pj

 

[Aimiel]

The testament of the spirit is what counts, the Bible is mythology and allegory past down through many cultures and diverse stories that teach the same principles, so Jesus is just a name given to the story in the Bible.

The Bible is Truth. It isn't myths and stories with morals for us to snip and imagine being just a guide. It is God's Holy Word, inspired by His Spirit and every Word was given to the holy men who wrote It. Jesus isn't just a 'name' He is God, in The Flesh. Pretending to be Christian then attacking the root of God's Word is the work of a devil.

 

[Zeke]

The Bible is Truth. It isn't myths and stories with morals for us to snip and imagine being just a guide. It is God's Holy Word, inspired by His Spirit and every Word was given to the holy men who wrote It. Jesus isn't just a 'name' He is God, in The Flesh. Pretending to be Christian then attacking the root of God's Word is the work of a devil.

Never claimed to a christian of the literal vain anymore, some teachings are valid concerning inner science but they didn't originate with the Jesus story. Its a solar tale and legend told in a multitude of various tales through history.

Call me a devil, satan, what ever you want its just another implant in your mind by your controllers.

All my devilish work aside, it is pretty tame compared to your belief in eternal punishment for your fellow human beings.

 

[God's Truth]

Research shows otherwise.

The apostles all taught the same.

No attacks where made on you personally, for 'truth' really needs no defense or 'apology'.

That is just more of your nonsense man wisdom.
The Bible tells true worshipers to debate, even in public debate. We are to argue, vigorously refute, sharply dispute, persuade, oppose, defend, confirm, command, preach, teach, instruct, rebuke, encourage, and contend!
Would you like scriptures?

Many scholars and authorities consider 2 Peter as 'pseudographical'(which means the real Peter did not write it, but it was merely 'attributed' to Peter, a falsely-applied authorship), and not researching the "why" behind this position is to perpetuate or to hold one's own 'ignorance' about the matter. This is self-defeating.

You speak nonsense.

Informed opinions are preferable over uninformed 'faith' assumptions.

You prove you do not know the scriptures.

Which shows you have no desire to learn or understand the subject or where my knowledge-base is coming from or related to...which doesnt really foster a mutually beneficial discussion, let alone a dialogue. Not learning or researching tends to keep one in the dark so to speak, - when the facts can be known, that are knowable. If you wont further educate yourself, others can access link-ports that will enhance their knowledge of the subject.

I know what your false beliefs are.

Links are provided to enrich the learning and dialogue-flow, which increases the value and context of the dialogue. I'm quite proficient in 'commentary', and provide ample explanations for my views in my 'writing' which is my 'craft'. However, you cannot 'debate' thoroughly with someone not willing to consider all possible points of view and most probable conclusions on a matter, when they dont avail themselves of broadening their knowledge.

What don’t you get about my knowing already what your false beliefs say?

An assertion that has no value unless it is somehow proven. Dont forget,...."whatsover a man sows, that also will he reap". - strip it down or qualify it anyway you like, its 'karma' (actions and their corresponding results). Eastern explanations may differ in some respects than an orthodox christian understanding of the 'concept', but the principle holds, and is also consonant with 'free will' and 'personal responsibility'. - carrying this onto ECT,...means God does not inflict an eternal torment or suffering on any soul, that it does not inflict upon itself when it is out of harmony with natural and spiritual laws. When the soul re-turns to 'God' and comes into harmony with Spirit, there is no 'sin' to affect anything.

Karma is the doctrine of demons.

 

[God's Truth]

You need to actually read what is being shared with you to understand what karma is, in the way I use it within its universal-meaning context, for beginners. - or else this dialogue cant continue on in an intelligent fashion. - I've been more than charitable to articulate such, and the 'law of compensation' shared from the Padgett messages does well to put it into a 'christian-context' (linked previously here).

There is no reason for an 'aversion' towards the word 'karma', since it only indicates 'action' and its corresponding consequences, in all possible cause-effect relationships. Being a student of universal spirituality, I naturally include both eastern & western religious terms and symbols.

As long as genuine free will exists, each determine their own 'heaven' or 'hell' at any moment in time or eternity, as long as the power of such is innately and actively theirs.



The scenario you suppose above may not be true in all cases, nevertheless...what causes abnormal birth-defects or other misfortunes that are somehow allotted to peoples lives? Multiple factors in a 'conditional' sense must be involved which allow or 'determine' various life situations and circumstances, apart from some things being 'pure accidents' or 'coincidents'.

'Karma' on a simple level refers to the cause and effect of 'actions' (however one wants to explain, qualify or articulate it). - thats it in a nutshell.



pj

The karma doctrine says those born disabled were evil people in former lives.

The karma doctrine says everyone asks for the bad that happens to them.

Karma is the doctrine of demons.

 

[Zeke]

The karma doctrine says those born disabled were evil people in former lives.

The karma doctrine says everyone asks for the bad that happens to them.

Karma is the doctrine of demons.

Numbers 14:18, plus the doctrine that Adam transgressed so we have to also so pay for his screw up, not any better than karma.

 

[God's Truth]

Never claimed to a christian of the literal vain anymore, some teachings are valid concerning inner science but they didn't originate with the Jesus story. Its a solar tale and legend told in a multitude of various tales through history.

Call me a devil, satan, what ever you want its just another implant in your mind by your controllers.

All my devilish work aside, it is pretty tame compared to your belief in eternal punishment for your fellow human beings.

Here are reasons the written Word of God says why people do not believe.

They are obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations--

They exchange the truth of God for a lie.

They are hostile to God.

They are stubborn and follow their own devices.

They have stubborn pride.

 

[God's Truth]

Numbers 14:18, plus the doctrine that Adam transgressed so we have to also so pay for his screw up, not any better than karma.

God would reveal the Truth to you if you loved Him.

See John 14:21 NET.

 

[Zeke]

Here are reasons the written Word of God says why people do not believe.

They are obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations--

They exchange the truth of God for a lie.

They are hostile to God.

They are stubborn and follow their own devices.

They have stubborn pride.

No some of us just want some actual facts to back up the story, you are willing to except it without any historical proof, so you might as well preach Santa while your at it.

 

[God's Truth]

No some of us just want some actual facts to back up the story, you are willing to except it without any historical proof, so you might as well preach Santa while your at it.

Here are reasons the written Word of God says why people do not believe.

They are obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations--

They exchange the truth of God for a lie.

They are hostile to God.

They are stubborn and follow their own devices.

They have stubborn pride.

 

[Zeke]

You forgot to include the eternal damnation clause for all that, your slipping.

Can't have your fellow human beings disagreeing with you and your myth god legend without retribution for eternity:angrymob:.

 

[Aimiel]

Never claimed to (be) a christian...

Good. You're not. Attacking God's Holy Word and making it into myths is not a Christian thing to do.

Call me a devil, satan, what ever you want its just another implant in your mind by your controllers.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory. Have you gotten off your meds? :think:

All my devilish work aside, it is pretty tame compared to your belief in eternal punishment for your fellow human beings.

Actually: NO. You knocking The Bible the way you do does more harm than you may yet realize. Jesus said that God's Word is Truth. I agree with Him. He inspired The Holy Scriptures and they are a roadmap to finding what was lost...

Luke 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

"What was lost?" you may ask... I'll tell you: relationship. When Adam (a real live man, the first man Jesus created) sinned in The Garden of Eden (a real place) he lost his relationship with God. Jesus came to restore that relationship. We can now have a One-on-one relationship with God again, thanks to Jesus' finished work on the cross. Actually, His work was completed in The Garden, Mount Olivet to be exact, the night He surrendered to God's Will: that He then paid the price exacted by that New Covenant, which He cut in His own Blood through prayer. The sacrifice took place in the mount of olives. His payment of that surrender took place the next day.

Pretending Christianity or attempting to speak about the Truths represented in The Holy Scriptures is devilish, since you're not teaching Truth, you're teaching doctrines of demons. The fact that you don't realize that every soul on this earth is influenced by whom they surrender their members to says a lot. Christians surrender their members to God. Non-Christians are prey for Satan. He controls your thinking and your actions, whether you realize it or not.

 

[freelight]

The karma doctrine says those born disabled were evil people in former lives.

Deformities, misfortunes, illnesses, suffering can be caused by one's own former actions, the actions of others, environmental factors and other unknown elements, but all things are inter-dependent, conditioned by various cause-effect relationships.

The karma doctrine says everyone asks for the bad that happens to them.

The eastern schools hold a common universal sense of 'karma' but may describe and explain it in different ways according to their own tradition. Calamaties that befall a person or a community have certain and uncertain causal elements, ,which bear corresponding 'effects'. These can include individual and collective actions bearing fruit which affect one's environment which are further allowed their course within the laws of divine providence.

Furthermore, it is expressly one's own sin that one is responsible for and is affected by 'personally' which results in 'death' according to Ezekiel - "the soul that sins shall die". - here the principle of 'self-responsibility' holds. The sins of others may 'affect' others within or without a recognizable karmic element involved, but all actions are related.



pj

 

[God's Truth]

Deformities, misfortunes, illnesses, suffering can be caused by one's own former actions, the actions of others, environmental factors and other unknown elements, but all things are inter-dependent, conditioned by various cause-effect relationships.

The karma doctrine says a person born disabled was an evil person in a previous life.

The eastern schools hold a common universal sense of 'karma' but may describe and explain it in different ways according to their own tradition. Calamaties that befall a person or a community have certain and uncertain causal elements, ,which bear corresponding 'effects'. These can include individual and collective actions bearing fruit which affect one's environment which are further allowed their course within the laws of divine providence.

Furthermore, it is expressly one's own sin that one is responsible for and is affected by 'personally' which results in 'death' according to Ezekiel - "the soul that sins shall die". - here the principle of 'self-responsibility' holds. The sins of others may 'affect' others within or without a recognizable karmic element involved, but all actions are ever 'relating'.

Karma is the doctrine of demons.

 

[Aimiel]

Paul (freelight) doesn't believe that there are demons. He believes that all roads lead to Heaven. He's living in a vacuum, created by his HUGE study of demonic religions and his head is swimming with half-truths (whole lies).

 

[freelight]

Love restores.......

Love restores.......

The karma doctrine says a person born disabled was an evil person in a previous life.

I've already described the term 'karma' in the way I use it, and it may include a soul suffering in some way for its past misdeeds, which is natural to the 'law of justice'. We can also call this the 'law of responsibility'', 'the law of compensation', 'law of retribution', etc. A person being born deformed can have various causal factors, whether it was self-imposed, imposed by others or various environmental factors....its still within the realm of some kind of 'karma' (action) having a determining element involved. 'karma' simply means 'action'. All souls are conditioned by their thoughts, words and actions. 'Karma' is intrinsic to life in this conditional realm of existence.

Understanding the karmic principle of life first is essential here, for a proper comprehension of the matter, especially as it relates to how souls suffer. A soul could only suffer as long as it transgresses the law of God and endures the 'consequences' for such actions, until it 're-turns' to love. As long as a soul can repent and love avails itself, the path to 'God' is always open.


pj

 

[God's Truth]

I've already described the term 'karma' in the way I use it, and it may include a soul suffering in some way for its past misdeeds, which is natural to the 'law of justice'. We can also call this the 'law of responsibility'', 'the law of compensation', 'law of retribution', etc. A person being born deformed can have various causal factors, whether it was self-imposed, imposed by others or various environmental factors....its still within the realm of some kind of 'karma' (action) having a determining element involved. 'karma' simply means 'action'. All souls are conditioned by their thoughts, words and actions. 'Karma' is intrinsic to life in this conditional realm of existence.

Understanding the karmic principle of life first is essential here, for a proper comprehension of the matter, especially as it relates to how souls suffer. A soul could only suffer as long as it transgresses the law of God and endures the 'consequences' for such actions, until it 're-turns' or 'repents', coming back into harmony with such law. As long as a soul can repent and love avails itself, the path to 'God' is always open.


pj

Go ahead and keep repeating your falseness. It gives more people a chance to hear the truth when I repeat the truth.

The karma doctrine says a person born disabled was an evil person in a previous life.

Karma is the doctrine of demons.

 

[Zeke]

Good. You're not. Attacking God's Holy Word and making it into myths is not a Christian thing to do.Sounds like a conspiracy theory. Have you gotten off your meds? :think:Actually: NO. You knocking The Bible the way you do does more harm than you may yet realize. Jesus said that God's Word is Truth. I agree with Him. He inspired The Holy Scriptures and they are a roadmap to finding what was lost...

Luke 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

"What was lost?" you may ask... I'll tell you: relationship. When Adam (a real live man, the first man Jesus created) sinned in The Garden of Eden (a real place) he lost his relationship with God. Jesus came to restore that relationship. We can now have a One-on-one relationship with God again, thanks to Jesus' finished work on the cross. Actually, His work was completed in The Garden, Mount Olivet to be exact, the night He surrendered to God's Will: that He then paid the price exacted by that New Covenant, which He cut in His own Blood through prayer. The sacrifice took place in the mount of olives. His payment of that surrender took place the next day.

Pretending Christianity or attempting to speak about the Truths represented in The Holy Scriptures is devilish, since you're not teaching Truth, you're teaching doctrines of demons. The fact that you don't realize that every soul on this earth is influenced by whom they surrender their members to says a lot. Christians surrender their members to God. Non-Christians are prey for Satan. He controls your thinking and your actions, whether you realize it or not.

The concepts of the scripture are fair game to use by anyone, I am attacking the ignorance of trying to make it a literal application, and the false perception that it has any historical validity.

Some of the teaching are valid body science, It also has a connection to astrotheology which the ancients practice long before the Jesus myth was offered to the world, The Ancients used mythological stories and legends to tell the workings of the universe, Jesus can be found in many a motif in Egypt lore and many others.

If you would take the time to really research the subject you would find out your faith is blind and has no foundation in actual history.

The Christ like thing to do is tells the truth even though it may not be popular to those who have been caught in its web.

 

[Zeke]

I've already described the term 'karma' in the way I use it, and it may include a soul suffering in some way for its past misdeeds, which is natural to the 'law of justice'. We can also call this the 'law of responsibility'', 'the law of compensation', 'law of retribution', etc. A person being born deformed can have various causal factors, whether it was self-imposed, imposed by others or various environmental factors....its still within the realm of some kind of 'karma' (action) having a determining element involved. 'karma' simply means 'action'. All souls are conditioned by their thoughts, words and actions. 'Karma' is intrinsic to life in this conditional realm of existence.

Understanding the karmic principle of life first is essential here, for a proper comprehension of the matter, especially as it relates to how souls suffer. A soul could only suffer as long as it transgresses the law of God and endures the 'consequences' for such actions, until it 're-turns' or 'repents', coming back into harmony with such law. As long as a soul can repent and love avails itself, the path to 'God' is always open.


pj

It is no accident that we find so called pagan teaching in the Bible, the cover up is starting to be pulled back for all to see, only fear keeps people from being set free from these dictatorship type of doctrines, and the dependence they cause.

The ridiculous doctrine of eternal punishment is completely based on superstition and the power of fear, brought forth by the priest class that welds the mental power to hook wink people into thinking they are worthless savages and lost without their salvation scheme.

Stockholm syndrome if there ever was one, sticking up for your captors and trying to persuade others to join the gang or else!:angrymob:

I want see them really free and experience liberty within themselves as a sovereign being, and see the man is evil nonsense for what it is, they want us to shake and bake for ever when it's all said and done,