Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[Aimiel]

Which is a sign you haven't entered his rest, and still needing to learn that the fear you teach will never gain you entry.

Psalm 111:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

 

[Zeke]

What happens to the part of Paul that makes him do the things he doesn't want to in Romans seven! when you figure that out you will see everyone has a part of them that needs dealt with by the spirit, and that is the part that is dealt with and is like a virus in a computer which is just a shell to store information like a brain, it isn't you the eternal being.

Even that teaching in Romans is found in other cultures, the two wolves that are inside everyone, the one you feed is the one that will be the dominant one in your life, its only narrow minded people that assume they have the market on truth, when it is all through the worlds history if one looks without the preconceived implants, even Job which many think came from oriental teachings is a universal story told in various ways by other cultures, etc...

 

[Truster]

Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment (ECT) biblical or not?

Which verses in the Bible support ECT and which verses in the bible support the doctrine that the wicked perish instead?

I've been trying to focus on ''the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment'', but my mind is being diverted to the doctrine of eternal conscious bliss and blessedness…sorry, but it could take some time.

 

[Zeke]

Psalm 111:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

That is true if your a slave under a task master, fear is a good tool to keep people in bondage, and isn't that based on the OT? are you a son of Hagar still trying justify the flesh through something that no longer aplys to an enlightened saint of light, still left brained, mocking and trembling at the base of the MT.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

The way you phrase that, Eternal Conscious Torment, is meant to put a scare into people and ignore the facts. Its a form of hyperbole at its worst...........

What do you want me to call the doctrine that the unsaved are alive and on fire for all eternity?

More hyperbole.

First of all, the fact that we are alive for all eternity has to do with the nature of the human spirit, not with hell. Your spirit is eternal and will never die. Therefore, whetever your disposition is when God judges you will be your disposition forever.

As for being "on fire", thats nonsense. Spirits reside in the spiritual realm, not the physical realm, and there is no actual "fire" in the spiritual realm because the spiritual realm does not consist of matter. Hell, therefore, is in the spiritual realm, and like spirits, it does not occupy space and is not a "place". Hell is eternal seperation from God, just as heaven is eternal bliss in union with God. It is a state of being, not a place. And most importantly, it is a choice we make. In this life we are the ones who choose to follow God or treject God.

 

[Aimiel]

That is true if your a slave under a task master, fear is a good tool to keep people in bondage, and isn't that based on the OT? are you a son of Hagar still trying justify the flesh through something that no longer aplys to an enlightened saint of light, still left brained, mocking and trembling at the base of the MT.

No, I've walked up the mount, met The Lord there, and learned that to know Him is to know His greatness AND His terribleness. Those who do not fear Him don't really know Him.

 

[Truster]

That is true if your a slave under a task master, fear is a good tool to keep people in bondage, and isn't that based on the OT? are you a son of Hagar still trying justify the flesh through something that no longer aplys to an enlightened saint of light, still left brained, mocking and trembling at the base of the MT.

The fear of the Lord is not to be confused with the fear of torment. The fear of Yah Veh (Lord) is a grace and because perfect love drives out all fear of torment, we are blessed, who know and love the fear of Yah Veh.

 

[Aimiel]

The fear of the Lord is not to be confused with the fear of torment. The fear of Yah Veh (Lord) is a grace and because perfect love drives out all fear of torment, we are blessed, who know and love the fear of Yah Veh.

:thumb:

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Because as Christians we recognize that "Karma" is a teaching of another religion, and since we are Christians it follows that we believe in Christianity and therefore believe that other religions are false.

Common sense 101

And we as Christians understand that "gravity" is a teaching of humanistic teachers and it follows that we believe in Christianity and therefore we believe that "gravity" is false............

Thats a crappy analogy because gravity is a scientific fact and can be proven by simple observation, and therefore anyone who denies it is an imbecile. But Karma and Christianity are matters of faiths and can not be scientifically proven or disproven.

I was simply responding to the fact that God's Truth said, "Karma is the doctrine of demons", and Zeke responded with, "Because your pastor or priest said it was?"

My response was that Christians are Christians for a reason, because we believe in Christianity, and therefore it follows that we believe other religions are false, hence the comment by God's Truth.

 

[Zeke]

No, I've walked up the mount, met The Lord there, and learned that to know Him is to know His greatness AND His terribleness. Those who do not fear Him don't really know Him.

Then you can't be trusted yet unless you have a terrible club above your head.

If you fear your parents after you have become an adult then your not really one yet.

 

[Aimiel]

Then you can't be trusted yet unless you have a terrible club above your head.

If you fear your parents after you have become an adult then your not really one yet.

It is not the same as fear for your body. It is fear of ultimate Power. He is a consuming fire. It is Spirit.

 

[Zeke]

Thats a crappy analogy because gravity is a scientific fact and can be proven by simple observation, and therefore anyone who denies it is an imbecile. But Karma and Christianity are matters of faiths and can not be scientifically proven or disproven.

I was simply responding to the fact that God's Truth said, "Karma is the doctrine of demons", and Zeke responded with, "Because your pastor or priest said it was?"

My response was that Christians are Christians for a reason, because we believe in Christianity, and therefore it follows that we believe other religions are false, hence the comment by God's Truth.

Karma or reaping what you sow is not an issue of faith, it is part of the system of creation that is a principle to teach his/her children that actions have negative or positive results in like manner, just like you would teach your children that if you jump of a building gravity will take over and you will most likely have a negative result.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Karma or reaping what you sow is not an issue of faith, it is part of the system of creation that is a principle to teach his/her children that actions have negative or positive results in like manner, just like you would teach your children that if you jump of a building gravity will take over and you will most likely have a negative result.

That's what you believe and thats's fine. You are free to believe whatever you want.

But "Karma", as far as I am concerned, is a word and concept that comes from Eastern religions, and I consider those religions to be false. That is what I believe and I have a right to beleive that.

And for the record, Karma are reaping what you sow are not exactly the same thing. They are similar, but there are different philosophies and nuances behind them.

 

[Zeke]

It is not the same as fear for your body. It is fear of ultimate Power. He is a consuming fire. It is Spirit.

Then you have yet to reach the level where perfect love has cast out all fear, fear of any kind isn't to be found in the kingdom of light, only love and full trust can gain entry.

Your god is still ego driven like you.

 

[Zeke]

That's what you believe and thats's fine. You are free to believe whatever you want.

But "Karma", as far as I am concerned, is a word and concept that comes from Eastern religions, and I consider those religions to be false. That is what I believe and I have a right to beleive that.

And for the record, Karma are reaping what you sow are not exactly the same thing. They are similar, but there are different philosophies and nuances behind them.

Even scripture points to the east or right side if you will, where did the wise men come from, who camped on the east side of the tabernacle in the wilderness, why does the Sun rise in the east? its a another myth you have let guide your perceptions.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Even scripture points to the east or right side if you will, where did the wise men come from, who camped on the east side of the tabernacle in the wilderness, why does the Sun rise in the east? its a another myth you have let guide your perceptions.

See how you are? I say you have the right to your beliefs and you respond by ridiculing mine. I am done with this conversation.

 

[Zeke]

See how you are? I say you have the right to your beliefs and you respond by ridiculing mine. I am done with this conversation.

You call that ridicule when I just pointed out the scripture is pro east?
Good grief get some thicker skin if the scripture offends you. East, east, east,east,east,east, :rotfl: now that could be ridicule.

 

[Aimiel]

Then you have yet to reach the level where perfect love has cast out all fear, fear of any kind isn't to be found in the kingdom of light, only love and full trust can gain entry.

Your god is still ego driven like you.

I reached that level, and moved up several more before standing in His Presence and in the presence of the Heavenly Host. He is The Only One Who deserves an ego. He loves to show off, and He is Love, but He also is to be feared. One day you will learn that. Those who come close to Him learn to fear Him, yet have no worries. He is The Judge of The Universe, not a toy.

 

[Zeke]

I reached that level, and moved up several more before standing in His Presence and in the presence of the Heavenly Host. He is The Only One Who deserves an ego. He loves to show off, and He is Love, but He also is to be feared. One day you will learn that. Those who come close to Him learn to fear Him, yet have no worries. He is The Judge of The Universe, not a toy.

Na, I been there and experienced the same and more, keep going your on the way don't stop yet.

 

[Aimiel]

If you had, you'd understand. Obviously you don't.