If you don't believe in the trinity...

Status
Not open for further replies.

popsthebuilder

New member
Indeed. :first:
With God at first? Yes, through God's will and predestination.

Yet still subsidiary as all sons are to be to the Father.

Only through purity of Christ can any man be rightly directed under God. This purity is only sinless and giving or surrendering to God's will as a lamb follows the Shepard.
 

Apple7

New member
It is the work of God and subsidiary to him. It is a means of direction for from him that also leads back to him. As stated all praise is to the One God, through Christ which is God's creation too.
Thanks.

No Pops...

The Son is NOT a creation.

You're sounding like a JW...
 

Apple7

New member
There is a difference between defining your threeology with words that do not appear in scripture,

"Trinity, triune, three in one, God the Son, dual nature, etc...." do not appear in scripture, yet you use those words to define your god,

and recognizing figures of speech.

So...

When pressed to show us the words...'unitarian'...'monad'....and 'majestic plural'....

you won't be able to?

Rather, it will have to be in our ability to 'recognize figures of speech'?

How novel of an idea!:dunce:
 

popsthebuilder

New member
But, you just said that He was created....so, in your mind, He must be a lesser-god...right, pops...?
The spirit of Jesus Christ is the same as God, and has been since his sacrifice, and was of God as a human through his perfect connection with his Father.

He was always a part of God, or the son of God, or the prophesied lamb of God. He as his teachings were without flaw even in human, or physical form.

What am I missing?

Thank you.
 

RevTestament

New member
Still you do not understand? Are you pulling my leg and just pretending not to understand such a simple thought process just because it does not fit your paradigm? The Priest lays his hands upon a fair twin goat and places all of YOUR devils upon its head. Sin is personified from the very beginning. Your sins are your devils and your devils have their doctrines. It is your own devils which defile the goat and mortally wound its head. For the same reason you cannot put your sins upon the head of Messiah but must supply your own twin goat, and it must be without blemish, or no deal. Therefore I said in the other thread; give up that billy goat pride of man for your Elder Brother: Kiss the Son, lest he be just a little angry and you perish from the Way, when his wrath is kindled just a little. Or I suppose you can keep your twin goat Esau old man nature and run with him, (into the desert and over the cliffhanger edge of a rocky ravine). But then again I do not know of anyone else that has not also learned such things the hard way, (including myself).
:sheep:
I understand alright, but I just disagree with you, so we will have to agree to disagree it looks like. Another thing you don't seem to take into account is that the scapegoat is brought when he makes an end of reconciling the holy place, which even you said is "later." It has nothing to do with one's own personal sins. And sins aren't devils - I don't know where you get that idea. Sins are a transgression of the law. Devil spirits followed Satan from the foundation of the world. Jesus didn't cast out sins, He forgave them. He cast out devil spirits. I won't be following you down this confused path my friend. Wish you well with that.
 

Apple7

New member
The spirit of Jesus Christ is the same as God, and has been since his sacrifice, and was of God as a human through his perfect connection with his Father.

He was always a part of God, or the son of God, or the prophesied lamb of God. He as his teachings were without flaw even in human, or physical form.

What am I missing?

Thank you.

What scripture are you using to justify that He was created?
 

Pierac

New member
Proverbs 8: 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.

15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.

16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.

17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.

19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.

20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:

21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.


24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.

33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.

34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.

35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.

36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

Also: Matt 22:
41 ¶While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.

43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Yet scripture teaches....

Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son,

Why do you think quoting verses that spoke to fathers in the prophets long ago relates to the Son speaking today? :think:

Can't you read Hebrews chapter one?



Study harder!
:poly::sherlock:
Paul
 

Pierac

New member
Still waiting for you to show us where 'majestic plural' occurs in scripture.

What is taking you so long...?

The 'elohim argument' is an old, worn out invalid polemic.

Show us where Moses was called Yahweh!

Owned again...

Your the one who claims any Hebrew word that has a plural meaning... suggest 3 in one! BTY... there is no 'elohim argument'

Whenever the word elohim refers to the God of Israel the Septuagint uses the singular and not the plural. From Genesis 1:1 consistently right through, this holds true. The Hebrews who translated their own scriptures into Greek simply had no idea that their God could be more than one individual, or a multiple personal Being! This is true too when we come to the New Testament. The New Testament nowhere hints at a plurality in the meaning of elohim when it reproduces references to the One God as ho theos, the One God! :readthis:

Your apology is accepted!
:poly::sherlock:
Paul
 

daqq

Well-known member
I understand alright, but I just disagree with you, so we will have to agree to disagree it looks like. Another thing you don't seem to take into account is that the scapegoat is brought when he makes an end of reconciling the holy place, which even you said is "later." It has nothing to do with one's own personal sins. And sins aren't devils - I don't know where you get that idea. Sins are a transgression of the law. Devil spirits followed Satan from the foundation of the world. Jesus didn't cast out sins, He forgave them. He cast out devil spirits. I won't be following you down this confused path my friend. Wish you well with that.

Personification, as previously stated, from the beginning: If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door, (of your house) and unto thee shall be his desire, (entity) and thou shalt rule over him (entity).

So go your way then as you say; but be sure your sin will find you out . . . :crackup:
 

popsthebuilder

New member
Rev Testament,

David called him Lord because of his prophesied and pure connection to God through the Godhead, or Christ conscious.

This is also why John the Baptist asked to be baptised by him.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
Are you hard of hearing or have problems reading?

He is one with God the Creator now.

He was subsidiary and the son of God from before time to his sacrifice, or crusifixion.

Thank you.
 

Apple7

New member
Your the one who claims any Hebrew word that has a plural meaning... suggest 3 in one! BTY... there is no 'elohim argument'

That would be your argument to begin with....keep fighting your strawman.

Hint: you are using the wrong cut-n-pastie from your library.:angel:


Now...

Again...

Show us the words 'majestic plural' in scripture...
 

RevTestament

New member
Yet scripture teaches....

Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son,

Why do you think quoting verses that spoke to fathers in the prophets long ago relates to the Son speaking today?
Because it is clearly the Son speaking and saying He existed from before the foundation of the world.

I don't think you would believe Jesus if He appeared to you and told you He existed before the foundation of the world - you are that obstinate.

Can't you read Hebrews chapter one?
That is only saying He spoke in bodily form as the prior prophets did. It has nothing to do whether He existed before being born in Bethlehem.

Study harder!
:poly::sherlock:
Paul
I would tell you that, but it is clear you will not listen to any scripture which does not conform to your unitarian belief. It doesn't get any more clear than Proverbs 8.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
Yet scripture teaches....

Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son,

Why do you think quoting verses that spoke to fathers in the prophets long ago relates to the Son speaking today? :think:

Can't you read Hebrews chapter one?


Study harder!
:poly::sherlock:
Paul

Paul, Hebrews 1 speaks of the son at the creation.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This son is a spiritual son for he is the exact image of the Father. The son Christ is a spiritual being that became man by dwelling in Jesus, the body prepared for him. Heb 10:5.

Its a deep study Paul and I would like your input on my thoughts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top