ECT Humility

[meshak]

And why do they do this?

Jesus says it and He is the teacher of love. Humility is one of love.

see humility in comparing one person who claims they are a Christian with another?

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. What we do is our fruit.

If you cannot see ungodly things when you see it, you have a big problem in your faith.

 

[nikolai_42]

Jesus says it and He is the teacher of love. Humility is one of love.

Where does Jesus say Godly men strive to be like Him?

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. What we do is our fruit.

If you cannot see ungodly things when you see it, you have a big problem in your faith.

You were making a broad statement when you asked me if I saw humility in self claimed "saved" Christians. Claiming to be saved - if true - is one big evidence of salvation. It makes the claim that one's own righteousness is not sufficient to please a Holy God. It admits that only by something beyond one's own righteousness is good enough. That is Christ's righteousness. So if someone claims to be saved, I am not to be the judge by comparing them with other people. Yes - we are to judge fruit as good or bad. But if someone tells a lie, does that mean they are not saved?

But even beyond that, the scripture you are quoting is directed specifically at false prophets. It isn't saying that everyone who sins is not saved. The prophet (or teacher) brings the Word of the Lord to a people - so how are they to know it is the Word of God? By the fruit of the teacher. If the life of the one bringing the teaching doesn't match up with his teaching, then refuse him. If his life is one of consistent sin, then refuse him. But it isn't saying that we are to test fruit so we can decide of people are really saved or not.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I don't see the issue.

You said that the Lord Jesus is not our "example" but I think that the following verses are saying that He should be our example:

"For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (2 Cor.4:11).​

"But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (2 Cor.3:18).​

 

[nikolai_42]

You said that the Lord Jesus is not our "example" but I think that the following verses are saying that He should be our example:

"For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (2 Cor.4:11).​

"But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord" (2 Cor.3:18).​

Not at all. You emulate good examples. You don't emulate Christ. It's not I, but Christ in me that is the hope of glory. This isn't imitation - this is renewal and transformation.

 

[popsthebuilder]

But you begged the division when you asked if Christ was our example. I'm saying he isn't - not in so many words. He is our example in bearing suffering, but in terms of humility we cannot relate completely to Him since He is God. In His humanity, though, He suffered in the flesh. So will we if we follow Him. He is our example as to how to bear it. But even then we cannot (would not) do so unless we are actually His.

So if you had asked if we are to be humble. I say yes. If we are to be humble because Christ was humble. Absolutely! But is the question posed merely to ask the question if we should be humble? Is it to ask if Christ was humble? Both these are plainly and explicitly answered in scripture. The issue comes in the nature of humility. Not in whether or not it is mandated. So I agree we are to be humble like Christ was humble. But the role that the natural man plays in this is crucial - since the natural man cannot humble himself. And we all still bear around a dying body that carries with it the (after) effects of sin. So to say we are to be humble brings in the role of the flesh which will not conform to the will of God. It wants to be told "do this" and "do that" and have glory of itself. The nature of Christ's humility can never be the same as our humility because a) He was God and b) He was sinless. So it is instructive to us in a way (the end) but to obtain that end, we do not go about trying to be as He was.

You asked the question if we are to imitate Christ. I think we are more to be imitators of Godly men because we are in the same circumstances. We are not to be imitators (in the thorough-going definition of the word) of Christ's humility. We don't ape it. We bear it. Christ never prayed for God to be merciful to Him in the same way sinners do. But that is how a sinner is to humble himself before God.

You are splitting hairs.

Then you go on to say Jesus didn't ask for GOD'S mercy, though He did. He didn't ask it because of His absent sin though....more splitting hairs. You seem to be setting up believers to fall short, and miss the mark; saying; we can never attain to the purity that was in Jesus. But we know that all things are possible to those with faith.

1 Peter 3: 8. Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: 9. Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. 10. For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: 11. Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. 12. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil. 13. And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? 14. But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 15. But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 16. Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ. 17. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. 18. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19. By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20. Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: 22. Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

I'm not going to post the ones about not allowing others to enter in, but it did come to mind.

peace

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[nikolai_42]

You are splitting hairs.

Then you go on to say Jesus didn't ask for GOD'S mercy, though He did. He didn't ask it because of His absent sin though....more splitting hairs. You seem to be setting up believers to fall short, and miss the mark; saying; we can never attain to the purity that was in Jesus. But we know that all things are possible to those with faith.
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I am not splitting hairs at all. Externally, one may appear one way but inwardly not be that way. A man can do all he wishes and not please God. One doesn't add a certain thing to things which he possesses to finally get to a place where he is pleasing to God - a man becomes a certain thing in relation to God and from that is all that he needs. The faith you speak of is essential - but even it is a gift of God. The Gentiles attained to righteousness and did not seek it while Israel sought it but did not attain. True Christianity does not consist in trying to become like Christ - it consists in working out what God has worked in. It is growing in Grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ. That knowledge is not taking in of information, it is taking on what can only be given of God. It is truly knowing God because He works in you. As Paul said, it isn't I who lives, but Christ lives in me. There is no setting up to fall short. That only happens when a man tries to do something in himself - to attain to something which he has no right (nor innate ability) to attain to. The whole point is that attainment is a given in Christ and it is an impossibility outside of Him. Not my efforts, my works, my will, my striving - but His life overtaking more and more of mine. The humility of Christ did not try to attain to anything himself, but simply walked out the will of God. We can't do that by emulation.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You don't emulate Christ.

So Christians are not to strive so that the life of Jesus might be made manifest in their lives?:

"For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (2 Cor.4:11).​

 

[meshak]

Where does Jesus say Godly men strive to be like Him?

It is just my reading of Jesus' word.

We cannot be godly Christian without trying to be like Him.


It is just common sense.

e making a broad statement

Yes, I am. Iam using Jesus'discerning skills. What we practice is our fruit.

Without producing godly fruit, we will not inherit God's kingdom.

 

[popsthebuilder]

I am not splitting hairs at all. Externally, one may appear one way but inwardly not be that way. A man can do all he wishes and not please God. One doesn't add a certain thing to things which he possesses to finally get to a place where he is pleasing to God - a man becomes a certain thing in relation to God and from that is all that he needs. The faith you speak of is essential - but even it is a gift of God. The Gentiles attained to righteousness and did not seek it while Israel sought it but did not attain. True Christianity does not consist in trying to become like Christ - it consists in working out what God has worked in. It is growing in Grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ. That knowledge is not taking in of information, it is taking on what can only be given of God. It is truly knowing God because He works in you. As Paul said, it isn't I who lives, but Christ lives in me. There is no setting up to fall short. That only happens when a man tries to do something in himself - to attain to something which he has no right (nor innate ability) to attain to. The whole point is that attainment is a given in Christ and it is an impossibility outside of Him. Not my efforts, my works, my will, my striving - but His life overtaking more and more of mine. The humility of Christ did not try to attain to anything himself, but simply walked out the will of God. We can't do that by emulation.

We can't do it by ignoring the working of the Spirit either.

One is free to turn towards and from GOD, unless they are the very elect; in which case they would be utterly humble and not consider themselves to be such perhaps even in their own mind, let alone outwardly.

peace

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[nikolai_42]

So Christians are not to strive so that the life of Jesus might be made manifest in their lives?:

"For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh" (2 Cor.4:11).​

Ummm...not in that sense, no. Compare :

...alway delivered unto death for Jesus sake....

with

...strive...

There may be strife involved in the first one, but it is in the passive sense. In other words, it is not us striving to manifest Christ.

 

[nikolai_42]

It is just my reading of Jesus' word.

We cannot be godly Christian without trying to be like Him.


It is just common sense.

You said that it was Jesus who said this, though. Not that it was just common sense. You hear an awful lot of people saying common sense things that Jesus also said (like "Love one another" for example). Does that mean common sense is what is needed to follow Jesus? Not according to Him :

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 8:47

Hardly "common sense". And Paul agrees :

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
I Corinthians 1:18-19

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Yes, I am. Iam using Jesus'discerning skills. What we practice is our fruit.
I Corinthians 2:13-15

This is not common sense. This is something else. The man who walks after his own thoughts thinks "being like Christ" is the common sense way to salvation.

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Proverbs 14:12

A way which seems right to man is common sense...

Without producing godly fruit, we will not inherit God's kingdom.

 

[nikolai_42]

We can't do it by ignoring the working of the Spirit either.

One is free to turn towards and from GOD, unless they are the very elect; in which case they would be utterly humble and not consider themselves to be such perhaps even in their own mind, let alone outwardly.

peace

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For the love of Christ constraineth us....

 

[john w]

Come on, fess up, let go, release yourself....This thread is really about me..

 

[popsthebuilder]

For the love of Christ constraineth us....

What is that from?

Is that a piece of a verse?

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[popsthebuilder]

Come on, fess up, let go, release yourself....This thread is really about me..

This thread is about the humility of the believer. Not because it is a natural trait, but because it seems to be a working of the Spirit. Whether it pertains to you or me or any other in not the point or focus of this discussion. Whether it should, is.

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[meshak]

You said that it was Jesus who said this, though. Not that it was just common sense.

What I said is that following Jesus is the Christianity. And this conclusion is commonsense.

You seem to be doing awful lot of nitpicking.

 

[meshak]

Come on, fess up, let go, release yourself....This thread is really about me..

In general, self claimed "saved" Christians are lacking in humility. This is my observation.

And you are not the only saved Christian. You have many, many cheer leaders.

so stop trying to make it this is your thread.

sorry.

 

[john w]

This thread is about the humility of the believer. Not because it is a natural trait, but because it seems to be a working of the Spirit. Whether it pertains to you or me or any other in not the point or focus of this discussion. Whether it should, is.

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Oh. I've renamed this thread:

"Posters Who Have No Sense Of Humor Check In Here"

 

[john w]

In general, self claimed "saved" Christians are lacking in humility. This is my observation.

And you are not the only saved Christian. You have many, many cheer leaders.

so stop trying to make it this is your thread.

sorry.

That's it, mess-hack. You've been officially eliminated from the valued prize here:


http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...hn-W-quot-The-Rifleman-quot-of-TOL-bobblehead!!!

But you are in the running for "TOL's 2017's Most Boring With No Sense of Humor Poster" award.


Good day to you, sir. And may the LORD God bless you, and then pour hail upon you, like he did in Egypt.

 

[meshak]

Oh. I've renamed this thread:

"Posters Who Have No Sense Of Humor Check In Here"

Luck of humility is not sense of humor.

You have tons of cheer leaders, even Calvinists cheer you up.

BTW, I bring up the most interesting topics. so I am not boring person

You have been calling me troll.

now what are you doing here?

You ae trolling my boy.