How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

[iouae]

Do you limit perception to the extent of your perception? Or the Word of GOD to such?

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Everything we do is seen through our perception or eyes. So that is a limit.

But sometimes when we get quiet and pray about something, the answer comes from a supernatural source and one knows it is so. Praying should be as much about listening as speaking.

That said, I am fairly happy with my perception of the Word, as opposed to anyone else's.
If that were not so, I would not feel the confidence to resolve doctrine in my own mind, but would be constantly wanting to know what the church teaches. I feel sorry for folks like that. I also know how to operate Strongs, and that goes a long way to settling many issues.

On parables, I have seen folks go horribly wrong when they start trying to get multiple points from a parable.

Are you the type of believer who believes he can come to a definitive opinion on a particular thread, and feel pretty confident that you are right?

 

[clefty]

Clefty Its a blessing to me that we believe the same thing in this regard.

I too believe that it is only by eating of the Tree of Life, (the angels seem to eat manna) that my future immortality will be sustained. We, like the angels have to stay connected to the vine, eat the bread and drink the wine of communion forever, or eat of the Tree of Life in order to have eternal life.

There is never a stage in the future when I could say that I don't need God's sustenance.

Now more than ever it makes sense that where He is there is nothing of what is prohibited here...no killing no stealing no adultery no coveting etc...so ”we do this and live” here and in the the restored life...and when we come back to the new world His kingdom...the tree is there to provide everlasting life to our still mortal lives...

Where He is...is what we practice for here...to abide in His love...forever

In the concept of hell what sustains the souls or spirits or actual bodies?

He ABHORS sin HAAAATES evil considers it an abomination...is why He withdraws His Spirit from anything with sin

and all with it is annihilated...

I got the guys at work here mocking me “don’t go to hell you will starve!”...LOL

 

[popsthebuilder]

Everything we do is seen through our perception or eyes. So that is a limit.

But sometimes when we get quiet and pray about something, the answer comes from a supernatural source and one knows it is so. Praying should be as much about listening as speaking.

That said, I am fairly happy with my perception of the Word, as opposed to anyone else's.
If that were not so, I would not feel the confidence to resolve doctrine in my own mind, but would be constantly wanting to know what the church teaches. I feel sorry for folks like that. I also know how to operate Strongs, and that goes a long way to settling many issues.

On parables, I have seen folks go horribly wrong when they start trying to get multiple points from a parable.

Are you the type of believer who believes he can come to a definitive opinion on a particular thread, and feel pretty confident that you are right?

Yes

Unless shown to be wrong, generally with in context scripture. But I am here to learn too; as I think we all are.

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[iouae]

Yes

Unless shown to be wrong, generally with in context scripture. But I am here to learn too; as I think we all are.

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There is nothing I like more than being proven wrong, so that I learn something new.

Doctrinal error is like a mental roadblock. When it is removed it allows one to explore places one could never go before. So opening one's eyes to one misunderstanding clears the way to clearing up other Biblical questions. I am sure we all have these nagging questions which are filed away under "For later resolution" which we cannot make sense of now.

Being on a forum like this where on's beliefs are probed so hard is a blessing. Many preachers probably would hate to have their ideas examined like we do here, because their beliefs would not stand up to the probing questions. I am happy to give up any and all pet doctrines if you or others can prove them wrong.

Take for instance the number of times I have heard preachers speak of the spirit, soul, body, mind of a human, as if these are different components. They quite casually believe spirit and soul are immortal, sort of trapped inside our body for now. And that this spirit or soul leaves the body to be stored somewhere after death, or wanders around not finding rest or whatever. When in fact, there is no scriptural evidence for this.

What there IS scriptural evidence for, is that some folks are demon oppressed, and that demon can drive them to suicide. So when the person dies, the demon may have lost it's human habitation, and may now be attached to where the deceased died. That is, to me, a far better explanation of why some houses are haunted etc. Especially if there has been a tragedy in the home. This phenomenon is mistakenly seen as the soul of the dead person coming back to haunt a place.

 

[iouae]

I got the guys at work here mocking me “don’t go to hell you will starve!”...LOL

Well, at least you have got them talking about hell.

My city Cape Town, a city of 4 million people, is about to be the first major city to run out of water in two months time. I was telling them at work today, the only solution is we need to pray for rain. They actually agreed with me. Some of my friends are going mad installing bore-holes, buying bottled water by the crate etc. My plan is to fill the bath at the end of March, before they cut off the water supply on 12 April.

 

[clefty]

Well, at least you have got them talking about hell.

ha yes...sadly most are too uncaring and preoccupied with other stuff that the idea they are not going to burn forever is not such a relief...they just dont care...

They believed so many lies they heard at church it really doesnt matter anymore...like a unfaithful spouse you have heard it all before and just regret ever loving her...some are angry at Yah since they dont know Him...and just what they were told...sadly they didnt know even doing that was poisoning them...

So it goes...

Maybe you have to actually be alive and not just surviving to wish to keep living...some think hell cant be worse than what they live now...

My city Cape Town, a city of 4 million people, is about to be the first major city to run out of water in two months time. I was telling them at work today, the only solution is we need to pray for rain. They actually agreed with me. Some of my friends are going mad installing bore-holes, buying bottled water by the crate etc. My plan is to fill the bath at the end of March, before they cut off the water supply on 12 April.

Goodness...that sounds bad...update us...

 

[iouae]

ha yes...sadly most are too uncaring and preoccupied with other stuff that the idea they are not going to burn forever is not such a relief...they just dont care...

They believed so many lies they heard at church it really doesnt matter anymore...like a unfaithful spouse you have heard it all before and just regret ever loving her...some are angry at Yah since they dont know Him...and just what they were told...sadly they didnt know even doing that was poisoning them...

So it goes...

Maybe you have to actually be alive and not just surviving to wish to keep living...some think hell cant be worse than what they live now...

Most folks do not feel qualified to decide doctrine for themselves.

Even good church-going Christians.

 

[clefty]

Most folks do not feel qualified to decide doctrine for themselves.

Even good church-going Christians.

Right? I mean studying to show yourself approved is not easy though...Satan has certainly exploited our innocence to trust and obey...

Now we counterfeit what was done for us and replace it with man’s traditions...

It’s sensational to fear hell...the Stockholm syndrome at its finest...Satans boot on our face and we call it sacred tradition and actually twist scripture into vindicating it...”My what an amazing boot!”

We rather trust in our own abilities to provide a life...and revel in our cleverness...until the water runs out...

They say you can bring a horse to water but you cant make him drink...not true...walk that horse through the desert 3 days and it will drink...

Yah will bring us all to the wilderness to find His church...

 

[oatmeal]

If our soul was immortal God would not have to resurrect or raise anyone from the dead for an immortal person cannot die.

However, if people do have immortality now, someone should tell all the funeral directors, the doctors and others that that corpse is not dead but alive.

Immortals do not not die.

Our eternal life is not soul, but spirit

 

[iouae]

Right? I mean studying to show yourself approved is not easy though...Satan has certainly exploited our innocence to trust and obey...

Now we counterfeit what was done for us and replace it with man’s traditions...

It’s sensational to fear hell...the Stockholm syndrome at its finest...Satans boot on our face and we call it sacred tradition and actually twist scripture into vindicating it...”My what an amazing boot!”

We rather trust in our own abilities to provide a life...and revel in our cleverness...until the water runs out...

They say you can bring a horse to water but you cant make him drink...not true...walk that horse through the desert 3 days and it will drink...

Yah will bring us all to the wilderness to find His church...

What you say is true.

I want to add this tendency in us humans.

We actually like to deceive ourselves. For instance....

In court we always justify ourselves and blame others.
Others are lazy, we are efficient.
Others are loudmouths, we are assertive.
Others are stingy, we are thrifty.
Others are indecisive, we take out time to make well thought out decisions.

The same traits in ourselves, we condemn in others. And we are blind to it.
A good friend of mine shouts at drivers speaking on their cellphones, then answers his own while driving.

We are willingly complicit in our own deception.
I see that trait in myself. And its dangerous. It spreads to doctrine too.
Some doctrines we may not want to be true, for whatever reason, and so mentally we may be closed to the truth about this doctrine.

Folks may be closed to the Sabbath for instance because they see it as an inconvenience to give God those 24 hours. They don't see it as the blessing we see it, as folks who have kept it.

They might be happy to change on some insignificant doctrine like was Jesus crucified on a Friday or a Wednesday, or on a stake or on a cross etc. which does not require a lifestyle change.

 

[Truster]

"And the very Elohim of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray Elohim your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Adonay Yah Shua Messiah".

That is what Paul taught and the scriptures teach, but those that are not truly conversant with scripture, just make it up as they go along.

 

[clefty]

If our soul was immortal God would not have to resurrect or raise anyone from the dead for an immortal person cannot die.

However, if people do have immortality now, someone should tell all the funeral directors, the doctors and others that that corpse is not dead but alive.

Immortals do not not die.

Our eternal life is not soul, but spirit

Made to live forever from eating of the tree of life not by possessing a immortal spirit...the spirit is on loan a gift of grace that returns to the Giver when we die...

I have heard it’s argue that literal bodies are returned and live forever burning and tormented
I have heard it hat it is the souls that are burning and tormented forever
And also the spirit lives forever burning in forever flames...

Only one of the three have the capacity to eat...and none have access to the tree of life...

Outside of His spirit only the tree of life can sustain...so since there is no tree of life in hell...nothing will live...only God is immortal so one must propose that God enjoys His Spirit being burnt in hell...as it is the only way anyone in hell can live

 

[clefty]

What you say is true.

I want to add this tendency in us humans.

We actually like to deceive ourselves. For instance....

In court we always justify ourselves and blame others.
Others are lazy, we are efficient.
Others are loudmouths, we are assertive.
Others are stingy, we are thrifty.
Others are indecisive, we take out time to make well thought out decisions.

The same traits in ourselves, we condemn in others. And we are blind to it.
A good friend of mine shouts at drivers speaking on their cellphones, then answers his own while driving.

We are willingly complicit in our own deception.
I see that trait in myself. And its dangerous. It spreads to doctrine too.
Some doctrines we may not want to be true, for whatever reason, and so mentally we may be closed to the truth about this doctrine.

Folks may be closed to the Sabbath for instance because they see it as an inconvenience to give God those 24 hours. They don't see it as the blessing we see it, as folks who have kept it.

They might be happy to change on some insignificant doctrine like was Jesus crucified on a Friday or a Wednesday, or on a stake or on a cross etc. which does not require a lifestyle change.

True.

Change can only come if you REALLY want it...

Change in weight...

Change in inability to do something...

Change in habit/lifestyle


Getting old is Yah’s last way of getting you to change...

 

[glorydaz]

True.

Change can only come if you REALLY want it...

Change in weight...

Change in inability to do something...

Change in habit/lifestyle


Getting old is Yah’s last way of getting you to change...

Put off this body of flesh, and be present with the Lord.:cloud9:

 

[clefty]

Put off this body of flesh, and be present with the Lord.:cloud9:

Awwww another cute emoji...

Only two houses are mentioned...NOT three...NOT two plus a temporary one...NOT from one house to the other house by way of a third...a motel...as if waiting for the paint to dry...or the electricians to install the security...

For some who have fallen ASLEEP in Christ it is from dust to the heavenly building but it is clear that its from the earthly body DIRECTLY to the heavenly body...and as Paul said in his earlier first letter to the Corinthians “in a twinkling of the eye” not only instant but visible...and to be with Him clothed not naked just a spirit floating around...but with the building of God, a house not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens...

Paul repeats: 3 Earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: if so be that being clothed we shall NOT be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon.”

Spirit without body is naked...we groan to be clothed upon with our house from heaven...we don not groan to be naked free floating spirits/souls...unable to hug grasp kiss each other and the master’s hands and eat from the tree of life...

So yes much better in our heavenly bodies with Him...with a new physical body clothed upon us which swallows up mortality

Paul repeats this even to the Romans

Romans 8:22, 23, “…ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body...

When did Paul expect to be with Him?


Romans 8:23
At the redemption of the body

1 Corinthians 5:5
In the day of the Lord Jesus

1 Corinthians 15:51-55
At the last trump

Colossians 3:4
When Christ our life shall appear

1 Thessalonians 4:16
When the Lord descends with a shout

2 Thessalonians 2:1
At the coming of the Lord

2 Timothy 4:7, 8
At “that day”

Clothed NOT naked...but in a house, a building of God.

If He had intended for us to live in a motel why give us a house at all? OR EVEN PROMISE ONE?

“I go to prepare a place...streets of gold...mansions...” do free floating spirits even have use of those?

Why even an earthly house? Would thus avoid the ability to eat of the forbidden tree...lol

Yes rather to be absent this cage of flesh...AND present fully clothed with His gifted covering of new restored flesh...capable of eating of the tree of life...just as it was in Eden as intended...before this detour

But thanks again for the cute smiley face sitting on cloud 9...no harp? Just kidding spirits can’t pluck strings...

 

[glorydaz]

For some who have fallen ASLEEP in Christ it is from dust to the heavenly building but it is clear that its from the earthly body DIRECTLY to the heavenly body...and as Paul said in his earlier first letter to the Corinthians “in a twinkling of the eye” not only instant but visible...and to be with Him clothed not naked just a spirit floating around...but with the building of God, a house not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens...

Don't confuse what happens to believers at the coming of the Lord with what happens to the believer who departs prior to His coming.

Philippians 1:22-24
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

 

[clefty]

Don't confuse what happens to believers at the coming of the Lord with what happens to the believer who departs prior to His coming.

Philippians 1:22-24
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

Don’t misuse Paul ignoring what he taught and inserting what you wish he taught.

To be with Christ IN HIM...ASLEEP

He believed in the resurrection when to be with Christ was exactly being fetched and brought back with Him WHEN He returned to take the living and dead home...at the same time...in their new bodies JUST received just made aware...just woken up from their having fallen asleep in Christ...

http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/do-christians-go-to-heaven-if-they-die

 

[glorydaz]

Don’t misuse Paul ignoring what he taught and inserting what you wish he taught.

To be with Christ IN HIM...ASLEEP

He believed in the resurrection when to be with Christ was exactly being fetched and brought back with Him WHEN He returned to take the living and dead home...at the same time...in their new bodies JUST received just made aware...just woken up from their having fallen asleep in Christ...

http://www.truthortradition.com/articles/do-christians-go-to-heaven-if-they-die

If you'd put aside those articles and stick to what Paul actually preached, you'd know how greatly you err.

 

[genuineoriginal]

And if God has a perfect memory, then He knows every bit of data about us, and could resurrect us in whatever sort of body He wanted, and with all our past memories, character traits and individual personality.

According to the Bible, God can and will forget many things about us.

 

[clefty]

If you'd put aside those articles and stick to what Paul actually preached, you'd know how greatly you err.

Feel free to show me...use emoji too...they’re cute...