How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

iouae

iouae

Well-known member
rstrats said:
iouae,
re: "Do you have any ideas on this score?"

Not a one.
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I Googled "How many hairs on head" and got....

Answer: You are born with about 100,000 scalp hair follicles to start with, but it varies with natural hair color. Blondes have an average of 150,000 hairs, the average redhead has 90,000. Those with black or brown hair average 110,000 to 100,000 hairs.

It seems God is into detail if He sees every sparrow which falls and knows the hairs on our heads.

Luk 12:6
Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
Luk 12:7
But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

How He does it or why He does it, I don't know. But in the end it's all data - just a number. We are just data. Our memories are just data. God knows and remembers everyone of our thoughts, words, and actions. Matt 12:36. These too are just data.

Thus God can resurrect us from memory. He does not need us to have an immortal or spirit component.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
iouae said:
The immortal soul doctrine is almost universally believed in every culture - though it appears sometimes as reincarnation or some other form.

As long as there have been humans, they have believed in life after death.

This presupposes a spirit component in humans which supersedes death, and continues on after death. In Christian circles this is the "soul" or "spirit in man".

Yet the soul is just man-atoms + O2 = soul (nephesh).

There is nothing immortal here.

Likewise the "spirit" is simply the "breath" or "O2" in man, which gives material life.

The reason we all believe in a spirit component comes from mankind believing Satan's lie "Thou shalt not surely die".

I am sure that most folks consider it ridiculous and a waste of time to even consider that man does not have an immortal component or soul. Maybe they should start a Bible study to see what underpins their confidence in an immortal component. I have looked at this extensively and concluded that the soul is not immortal, but simply the physical man, and man's spirit is just his breath, again nothing immortal, just oxygen keeping the soul going.
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You seem to be conflating oxygen with the breath of life.

We are told that life isn't limited to the material, so the breath of life wouldn't be limited to oxygen to me, but is more related to the life force and sustanance of the soul or spirit.

That isn't to say that we are eternal as opposed to resurrected though.

Just talking.... conflate is a strong word. I didn't mean it negatively; just they you might be confusing the two based on assertions rather than spiritual discernment.



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popsthebuilder

New member
iouae said:
Wow Glorydaz

Nice counterstrike.

But like I say, parables always have only one point, and the point of the parable of Christ=Jonah is that both are in a place for 3 days.

You have ADDED the point that both are ALIVE in a place for 3 days.

And that is where your interpretation of the parable fails.

But still, well played :)
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I have to disagree about your comment on parables friend.

Do you really think each only holds one singular point?

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iouae

iouae

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
I have to disagree about your comment on parables friend.

Do you really think each only holds one singular point?

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Yes, name the parable and I will give you its single point.

Or you could look at this video.

 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
You seem to be conflating oxygen with the breath of life.

We are told that life isn't limited to the material, so the breath of life wouldn't be limited to oxygen to me, but is more related to the life force and sustanance of the soul or spirit.

That isn't to say that we are eternal as opposed to resurrected though.

Just talking.... conflate is a strong word. I didn't mean it negatively; just they you might be confusing the two based on assertions rather than spiritual discernment.



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That is what the whole debate is about. My reading of the Bible is that life, all life and human life is confined to the material - which is counter to everything which folks in every culture have been taught.

We trust God to give us eternal life however.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
iouae said:
That is what the whole debate is about. My reading of the Bible is that life, all life and human life is confined to the material - which is counter to everything which folks in every culture have been taught.

We trust God to give us eternal life however.
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But those two ideals seem in contrast to one another.



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clefty

New member
iouae said:
That is what the whole debate is about. My reading of the Bible is that life, all life and human life is confined to the material - which is counter to everything which folks in every culture have been taught.

We trust God to give us eternal life however.
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Give us eternal life and ONLY through another material medium...fruit from the tree of life.

Man was not created immortal...never was...dust + His spirit = a living soul...in a material container...

The fact that we are alive even now in the material world and but for a little while is a spiritual miracle...is a continuing gift of grace...sign of mercy

Being born into the material world now is to have been saved from annihilation by His grace and His spirit (life force) given to Eve to have children...for that gift we are here although but for a little while...as we are denied access to the tree of life to “put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

We are then born saved as adam was and in need only to accept it (faith) and obey “to do this and live”

We will be restored access to the tree of life when we are restored...and then live forever...

All else will return to its annihilation denied access to it...and be as if never born never material...only Yah is immortal we need Him...His tree of life...
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
clefty said:
Give us eternal life and ONLY through another material medium...fruit from the tree of life.

Man was not created immortal...never was...dust + His spirit = a living soul...in a material container...

The fact that we are alive even now in the material world and but for a little while is a spiritual miracle...is a continuing gift of grace...sign of mercy

Being born into the material world now is to have been saved from annihilation by His grace and His spirit (life force) given to Eve to have children...for that gift we are here although but for a little while...as we are denied access to the tree of life to “put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

We are then born saved as adam was and in need only to accept it (faith) and obey “to do this and live”

We will be restored access to the tree of life when we are restored...and then live forever...

All else will return to its annihilation denied access to it...and be as if never born never material...only Yah is immortal we need Him...His tree of life...
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Clefty Its a blessing to me that we believe the same thing in this regard.

I too believe that it is only by eating of the Tree of Life, (the angels seem to eat manna) that my future immortality will be sustained. We, like the angels have to stay connected to the vine, eat the bread and drink the wine of communion forever, or eat of the Tree of Life in order to have eternal life.

There is never a stage in the future when I could say that I don't need God's sustenance.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
iouae said:
I don't see why. You would have to explain where the contrast lies.
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The Spirit of life nor life is strictly the sum of it's material parts.

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popsthebuilder

New member
iouae said:
Give me a for instance please.
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Any instance of His actual words generally suffices.

Matthew 13: 8. But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

(Shows that the levels of the gifts of GOD are varied and too that good ground for the planting of the seed of faith in Christ is the whole world; as of course; the whole world is the Lord's; as is all existence; not just what is readily percievable.)

Hope that helps;.

peace



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iouae

iouae

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
Any instance of His actual words generally suffices.

Matthew 13: 8. But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

(Shows that the levels of the gifts of GOD are varied and too that good ground for the planting of the seed of faith in Christ is the whole world; as of course; the whole world is the Lord's; as is all existence; not just what is readily percievable.)

Hope that helps;.

peace



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The parable of the sower is that a Christian has to sprout and grow to the point of being productive.

To me that's one point, to you it may be multiple.

Obviously the more productive a Christian is the better.

But vegetative growth is not enough. A good looking Christian is not enough. Its all in my one point.
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
The Spirit of life nor life is strictly the sum of it's material parts.
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I am not sure how Gen 1:2 advances your argument.

God's Spirit surveyed an earth that was in ruin and in 6 days renewed it.

Nothing spirit was created in those 6 days. All just a material creation.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
iouae said:
The parable of the sower is that a Christian has to sprout and grow to the point of being productive.

To me that's one point, to you it may be multiple.

Obviously the more productive a Christian is the better.

But vegetative growth is not enough. A good looking Christian is not enough. Its all in my one point.
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If you are saying all parables reiterate the same point ultimately, then we agree.

What I am trying to say is that to me, each parable does this in a multitude of ways; that indeed do reiterate the same singular Point, ultimately.

peace

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iouae

iouae

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
If you are saying all parables reiterate the same point ultimately, then we agree.

What I am trying to say is that to me, each parable does this in a multitude of ways; that indeed do reiterate the same singular Point, ultimately.

peace

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I believe each parable makes one point (in general - there may be odd exceptions.

Here are some parables and I give the one point.

1. Lamp Under a Basket - God made us lights - so shine

2. Unshrunken Cloth on Old Cloak - NT believers need a new paradigm, not a patch on OT

3. New Wine in Old Wineskins - same

4. Sower and the Four Soils - God requires us to grow spiritually till we are productive

5. Mustard Seed - Kingdom started 2000 years ago with Jesus and has spread to fill earth.

6. The Wicked Tenants - If you don't want the kingdom, someone else will.

7. Fig Tree (See also "28. Barren Fig Tree" below) - Christ cursing fig tree represented Christ cursing Israel till He returns

8. Wise and Foolish Builders (Two Builders) - If not Christ centred as a Christian, you will not be solid.

9. The Leaven (Yeast) - Kingdom grew from Christ 2000 years ago to fill the world/dough

10. Lost Sheep - God values and rejoices over the lost who are found

11. The Faithful and Wise Servant - Be about the Master's business when He returns

12. The Talents & Pounds - Be profitable, and having a good attitude towards the Master will help you be profitable.
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
iouae said:
I believe each parable makes one point (in general - there may be odd exceptions.

Here are some parables and I give the one point.

1. Lamp Under a Basket - God made us lights - so shine

2. Unshrunken Cloth on Old Cloak - NT believers need a new paradigm, not a patch on OT

3. New Wine in Old Wineskins - same

4. Sower and the Four Soils - God requires us to grow spiritually till we are productive

5. Mustard Seed - Kingdom started 2000 years ago with Jesus and has spread to fill earth.

6. The Wicked Tenants - If you don't want the kingdom, someone else will.

7. Fig Tree (See also "28. Barren Fig Tree" below) - Christ cursing fig tree represented Christ cursing Israel till He returns

8. Wise and Foolish Builders (Two Builders) - If not Christ centred as a Christian, you will not be solid.

9. The Leaven (Yeast) - Kingdom grew from Christ 2000 years ago to fill the world/dough

10. Lost Sheep - God values and rejoices over the lost who are found

11. The Faithful and Wise Servant - Be about the Master's business when He returns

12. The Talents & Pounds - Be profitable, and having a good attitude towards the Master will help you be profitable.
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Do you limit perception to the extent of your perception? Or the Word of GOD to such?

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