Yup...but when rebuilding/reprogramming us He will be sure to leave out the icky sin caused bad parts in our new hardware/software and then toss that where He tossed our sins...
How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?
- Thread starter iouae
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Yup...but when rebuilding/reprogramming us He will be sure to leave out the icky sin caused bad parts in our new hardware/software and then toss that where He tossed our sins...
iouae
Well-known member
I think you are right. When God resurrects us, and gives us back our personality, character and memory, I think He will put us back together again without the baggage, and the downward pulls.
iouae
Well-known member
Good one Clefty.
You were on to it too...
This actually is a significant point as it is radically different than the description by John of what he saw shown playing in the heavenly IMAX...that the souls recalled their former torment and pain and demanded vengeance and justice soon...
As a metaphor it makes a point to bring comfort that the atrocity of martyrdom will be specifically dealt with but it leaves an ache to think that souls in heaven merely cry out for vengeance...it was included as they do prove that judgement day had not yet occurred...but they were waiting “how long?” Imagine having to carry THAT around as you try to lay down with the lion or slide down a giraffe...oh nevermind...some believe we are merely spirits...
Happily what John saw was just from a really good production company...so almost real...
iouae
Well-known member
Excellent point about the souls under the altar metaphorically crying out for justice to be done, just as Abel's blood metaphorically cried out from the ground for his blood to be avenged.
This state of mental torment is not reflective of the Kingdom of heaven, but merely says that the kingdom cannot come till God's justice has been served. The world waits, and cries out for that day (metaphorically speaking).
And the fact that the souls of the martyrs cry out in 90AD (when Revelation was written) when the folks who martyred them would be long dead and should have already received their comeuppance (if comeuppance comes immediately after death), proves that ALL, good and bad wait in death for judgment day.
The symbolism of martyred souls under the altar, shows they are not forgotten, have a central place in heaven, are kept safe, while God is preparing a place in eternity for them.
The following verse alone should prove that the dead do not immediately get their reward.
Jhn 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
It is clear that they are rewarded when "I will come again and receive you unto myself".
They are rewarded at His coming.
way 2 go
Well-known member
Jesus taught existence of your spirit after the death of the body.
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
iouae
Well-known member
Jesus told a popular folk story popular because it had the rich in hell and the poor rewarded...of course the people liked it..
Do you really think there are conversations to be had over a gulf seperating those who died good from those who died not good? Abraham was far off...how far to still hear the rich man ask over the roar of the fires?
Do you really think the rich man thought a drop of water on his tongue would even LAST in this hell? Let alone cool his tongue...
If anybody had a good afterlife account it would be real life Lazarus...4 days DEAD...but I suppose he was in heaven for four days but POOF had to come back and go back to work...or maybe he was in hell...”WHY DIDN’T HURRY TO RAISE ME?”
So which is less disruptive to poor Lazarus’ life...?
But from him we get NOTHING...not a peep...
You would think the Gospel of Lazarus would be a hit...imagine the comfort and encouragement it could offer with tales from the other side...
glorydaz
Well-known member
This one thinks Jesus came to entertain. :nono:
glorydaz
Well-known member
You try and talk some sense into these idiots. They need all the help they can get.
This one thinks He came to LIE and DECEIVE... no no shaky head thingy...
way 2 go
Well-known member
Are you saying Jesus lied?
Joh 12:9 When the large crowd of the Jews learned that Jesus was there, they came, not only on account of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead.
Joh 12:10 So the chief priests made plans to put Lazarus to death as well,
Joh 12:11 because on account of him many of the Jews were going away and believing in Jesus.
no you are...teaching an afterlife not found in the OT is destroying the law...THINK NOT ok?
To SEE Lazarus nothing about hearing his stories of floating around heaven with harp and halo...certainly not walking on streets of gold with a glorified body given to him at the resurrection...
Nothing of his four days DEAD...asleep...He called it...
Could have told the disciples “Oh Lazarus is on the bosom of Abraham”...the irony too perfect...but He DID NOT
He said “he sleeps”...and then went to wake Him up...and Lazarus just stumble out and said “whaaa..?” “Let’s eat!” or something...
way 2 go
Well-known member
Jesus taught existence of the spirit after death
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Luk 16:24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
whatever Lazarus said , he earned death threats.
Joh 12:10 So the chief priests made plans to put Lazarus to death as well,
Joh 12:11 because on account of him many of the Jews were going away and believing in Jesus.
keep repeating a lie long enough and people will think this was about the afterlife...but not all people
Does water cool a spirit’s tongue?
Whatever it was could have been recorded and great solace and comfort PROOOF...but well maybe he didnt say much more that “I died and then BAM I woke up”...
You realize just being...and resurrected when that was not believed by many was controversy enough...just standing in line waiting for coffee would be proof of the error being taught...no resurrection...
way 2 go
Well-known member
you are convinced Jesus lied ?
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Joh_21:25 Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
Paul doesn’t get to verse 10 in this first chapter without mentioning the DAY OF CHRIST...not once but TWICE...
now according to Paul what day is that? When we go from earthly body flesh tent to glorified eternal body...NO SPIRIT REALM WAITING ROOM...
Stop trying to insert a teaching not found in the OT certainly NOT from his Master nor from Paul’s imagination...
Having a desire to be with Him at the time...is at the resurrection...not to die and float about...oh wait Paul being killed would NOT be floating about...he be stuck under the altar crying for vengnce “HOW LONG!”
not at all....happily he wasn’t teaching on the afterlife...but you wish He were...
BTW...the answer is NO spirits do NOT have tongues that can be cooled with water...
Awww that’s too bad it’s not included...maybe there is where your evidence would be...naw doubt it...as if the church would hide convincing evidence in scripture to its hell and its afterlife...lol
glorydaz
Well-known member
Lame, especially since Paul says he would be leaving those other believers behind. He's hardly referring to the day of the Lord, and the resurrection of his body, if he was the only one to be resurrected.
I realize it's hard for a man of the flesh to understand that man has a spirit....which will DEPART and be with Christ before his body is ever resurrected.
Phil. 1:23-25 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. 25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;