Hello everyone

[Nightangel1282]

You may believe such a person does no harm (Ps 19:13), but they do when they fail to believe in God (Ro 14:23). It is sin and rebellion (De 9:7; Jos 1:18). He is good and worthy of all worship.

You think a God who killed the firstborn children of Egypt, flooded the earth, killing everybody but one family and a bunch of animals, who ordered people to commit atrocities against other people who thought differently is GOOD and worthy of worship? Sorry, I'll keep living in "sin" and rebelling. (Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not kill?" God doesn't follow his own rules?)

Work-based faiths seem right to man but lead to death (Prov 16:25, Jude 1:11). It is God's universe. He makes the rules. The wicked blame God (Ge 3:12; Jer 7:10). He is on the throne and will not bow to man's way.

Yes, I'm sure running to a third world country and feeding the poor even though you have no belief in God is going to lead to death.

Some say we may be surprised when we get to heaven at who is there and who is not there:
"...Mother Teresa said at the end of her life: “Where is my faith? Even deep down … there is nothing but emptiness and darkness … If there be God—please forgive me. When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven, there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul … How painful is this unknown pain—I have no Faith. Repulsed, empty, no faith, no love, no zeal, … What do I labor for? If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true." (Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light. New York: Doubleday. ISBN 0385520379).
"If there be God."? Mother Teresa came from a work-based faith that did not point her to the Savior. Her faith teaches: a different Jesus, a different gospel and a different way of salvation than historical , biblical Christianity. "When I try to raise my thoughts to heaven..." is an expression of work. Work nullifies faith (Gal 3:18). "I have no faith...What do I labor for?"

Sorry, but after seeing hundreds of thousands of men, women and children suffering and dying, and believing there was a merciful God who was doing absolutely nothing to help abate their suffering, I think I'd lose my faith too (if I hadn't already lost it)

We cannot say what may have happened at the last moments of each of these people's lives, but what was their plan? We know that only faith in Christ (not prayer to saints, not trust in church works) will save. "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die (Jn 11:25-26, NKJV)." "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me (Jn 14:1, ISV)."

Hate to tell you this, but quoting scripture means nothing to me.

No matter what we think we see on the outside, God knows the heart. "Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart (1 Sam 16;7, ISV)."

At the end of Dahmer's life he said "I have accepted Him [Jesus] as my Lord and Savior...The Lord Jesus Christ is truly God." (Dahmer Professes Trust in Jesus).

At the end of Mother Theresa's life she wrote, "Jesus, You...are not true." Scripture teaches: "If you declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved (Ro 10:9)." full text: I just don't believe that Jeffrey Dahmer could go to heaven and Mother Theresa could go to hell. http://vananne.com/armorofthelord/

So you think Dahmer's in HEAVEN??? And Mother Theresa is in HELL??? I'm sorry, I think my respect for your religion and your God just went down even more notches. Thanks.

God is good and worthy of all worshipRo 14:23. . Failing to worship God is sinful and rebellious (Jas 4:17). Worship is to be rendered to God alone ( Ex. 20:3; Deut. 5:7; 6:13; Matt. 4:10; Luke 4:8; Acts 10:26; 14:15; Col. 2:18; Rev. 19:10; 22:8). When you fail to worship God, you do not worship nothing, you worship something else (e.g. dirt worship [Enyart]).

By the way, throwing a bunch of verses at me isn't going to do anything to illustrate your point. I don't believe in the bible, remember?

Do you hear your worship? "I...I...I". Understand what God thinks by reading his word. What is his philosophy? You will see he is good (Ps 34:8).

You don't want to KNOW what I think he is after reading this post. Trust me, it would get me banned.

God's ways can be higher than our own but not lower (Isa 55:8). Men enslaved in sin are not free (Jn 8:34). Christ is the giver of all freedom (Jn 8:32).

Men living in fear of God's wrath are not free. Sorry, my opinion.

 

[Stripe]

Congratulations on finding the quote tag ability within yourself. Much prettier, no?

I woke up with a bad head cold this morning and my head feels like it's the size of a pumpkin, so bear with me today, please. >.<

Just don't sneeze on us. :thumb:

If you haven't lived my life, you can never understand. Of course, if you want me to, I'll write out my life story here, but I must warn you that its contents may be considered by some to be disturbing. No joke.

Why would I need to live your life? That has nothing to do with the conversation we were having. It's moments like these that make me go :squint:

I asked you about prayer and Christ and the sum total of your answer was to do with how you felt. Is that all you are going to use to justify your answer or is there more to it?

Sorry, argument doesn't hold up. The Bible was rewritten who-knows how many times over the centuries. The Egyptian History is written down on papyrus, of which there was a limited supply, or CARVED into stone. They weren't rewriting their own history.

Uh, dude. You DO not know what you're talking about. Egyptian history cannot be shown reliable exactly because of its limited supply. Christian history can be shown unreliable because of its many manuscripts.

Now could you point to some examples of "rewriting" so we can understand exactly what your problem is?

Because it's what I am.

You're a pagan because you're a pagan? I guess that works in a utilitarian kinda way. :chuckle:

So If I walked up to you and said "In my opinion, you are a BLEEPITY BLEEP BLEEP" you would not be offended?

I might well be offended at such behaviour. Would you stop swearing if I said I found it offensive? Do you indeed think of me this way?

 

[Town Heretic]

Just stepping in for a moment.

You think a God who killed the firstborn children of Egypt, flooded the earth, killing everybody but one family and a bunch of animals, who ordered people to commit atrocities against other people who thought differently is GOOD and worthy of worship? Sorry, I'll keep living in "sin" and rebelling. (Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not kill?" God doesn't follow his own rules?)

The examples you note are God acting in righteousness, not as an expression of love. Man is justly condemned by his own willful acts absent grace...And it's thou shalt not murder. God doesn't and cannot murder.

Yes, I'm sure running to a third world country and feeding the poor even though you have no belief in God is going to lead to death.

Unrelated. You cannot earn salvation. Your heart will always tip the scale against you if you tried.

Sorry, but after seeing hundreds of thousands of men, women and children suffering and dying, and believing there was a merciful God who was doing absolutely nothing to help abate their suffering, I think I'd lose my faith too (if I hadn't already lost it)

Then you misapprehend faith.

So you think Dahmer's in HEAVEN??? And Mother Theresa is in HELL??? I'm sorry, I think my respect for your religion and your God just went down even more notches. Thanks.

Your respect, absent a better understanding of what you consider, isn't an offense as I see it or a recommendation. It's just an opinion with an errant foundation and I hope finds a better view.

Men living in fear of God's wrath are not free. Sorry, my opinion.

No man who is in Christ fears God's action or relation, except in the consideration of those without it.

 

[Nightangel1282]

As long as you keep a lock on the liquor cabinet.

Aww... no booze?

Well, that's just silly. A little like saying, "Other than the testimony of witnesses what have you got?"

Sorry, but the testimony of those "witnesses" has been written and REwritten who knows how many times. I need something that hasn't been subject to editing. And given that the Romans were excellent record keepers, wouldn't there be something OUTSIDE of the bible that would give evidence to the existence of Jesus Christ?

Of course, the simpler response (again, too early but...) would be what objective evidence would be presentable?

See above.

The thing about personal experience is that it's only possible with an actual surrender of will. When you come to it you won't be looking for a miracle or signs. You won't need them. A profession of faith in God is an act of love, not the presentation of a bill or an invitation to substantiation...now I'll admit that saying this is a bit easy for me given my own introduction to the faith came with the sort of experience that you appear to have been looking for and which I actively wasn't (figures, doesn't it?) but I think it's still true.

Sorry, but in the first seventeen years of my life, I experienced none of Gods love, even though I gave my life over to him wholeheartedly. In fact, as I said in an earlier post, my life only got worse. MUCH worse.

Then you have come to an understanding of belief even even if I believe you to have misapprehended its foundation.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one then

I don't tend to debate religion, either within or without the faithful, which causes suspicions in some corners...don't ask. But I will, do and have defended it from unreasoning attack and I'm always up for discussion. Conversion is God's business and it would be an act of vanity on my part to presume a hand in it.

I don't tend to debate religion either lol. And your view on conversion being God's business.... I wish more Christians thought like that.

I was an Atheist for decades, had my own brush with the tragic, watched someone I greatly esteemed pray and suffer and thought for all it mattered she might have spent the time scrubbing her floor instead...she seemed like a modern Job to me. And like Job, she remained faithful. A few years later she was, very much like Job, returned to her estate in greater abundance...of course I counted it as a turn of fate then and now I recognize that her real abundance was evidenced in the steadfastness of her faith throughout. Again, we're a good walk from that destination, but a foreshadowing then seems appropriate.

Well, I suppose people handle hard times in different ways. Sometimes it might bring people to God, but in other cases, it brings people AWAY from him.

The how and why of that will be an interesting portion of our talk, I suspect...once the dust settles and you have less demand on your attention.

I look forward to it

Then you haven't a worry in the world and our conversation will be a pleasant enough chance to sustain and enrich your faith and to add clarity of understanding where mine is concerned.

Sounds good to me

Was that a to each his own sentiment or are you prosthelytizing, you sly devil...:chuckle:

Option one lol.

 

[Nightangel1282]

Congratulations on finding the quote tag ability within yourself. Much prettier, no? ?

Yes lol

Just don't sneeze on us. :thumb:

Nah, I'm just a little cranky, as you might be able to tell from my not-as-nice-as-usual posts. >.<

Why would I need to live your life? That has nothing to do with the conversation we were having. It's moments like these that make me go :squint:

I asked you about prayer and Christ and the sum total of your answer was to do with how you felt. Is that all you are going to use to justify your answer or is there more to it?

Okay, what kind of a response would satisfy you?

Uh, dude. You DO not know what you're talking about. Egyptian history cannot be shown reliable exactly because of its limited supply. Christian history can be shown unreliable because of its many manuscripts.

Now could you point to some examples of "rewriting" so we can understand exactly what your problem is?

Well, for starters, the word "poisoner" was replaced by the word "Witch", and the KJV was rewritten so King James could divorce his wife and remarry. I'm sure I could find many more examples if I cared to look them up atm >.<

You're a pagan because you're a pagan? I guess that works in a utilitarian kinda way. :chuckle:

I am no longer going to respond to your questions asking why I'm pagan. You believe Christianity is the one true religion, I believe Paganism is the right faith for ME. Let's just agree to disagree.

I might well be offended at such behaviour. Would you stop swearing if I said I found it offensive? Do you indeed think of me this way

But It would only be my opinion, so why should you be offended by another person's opinion? (BTW, YES, I most certainly would stop if you asked me to, and NO, I don't think of you in that way at all. I was just trying to illustrate a point about people being offended by opinions)

 

[Nightangel1282]

Just stepping in for a moment.

The examples you note are God acting in righteousness, not as an expression of love. Man is justly condemned by his own willful acts absent grace...And it's thou shalt not murder. God doesn't and cannot murder.

Well, even though I always heard it was "kill".... Really, what the heck's the difference???

Unrelated. You cannot earn salvation. Your heart will always tip the scale against you if you tried.

I think this is another issue where we'll have to agree to disagree >.<

Then you misapprehend faith.

Your opinion.

Your respect, absent a better understanding of what you consider, isn't an offense as I see it or a recommendation. It's just an opinion with an errant foundation and I hope finds a better view.

Sorry, but if people like Dahmer can get into heaven, I think I'm going to make darn sure I'm not going there (if it even exists).

No man who is in Christ fears God's action or relation, except in the consideration of those without it.

Sorry, but growing up with the words "If you do this or that you will BURN in a Lake of Fire!!!!!" would make almost any child grow up to fear the wrath of God.

 

[Town Heretic]

Aww... no booze?

Depends on your denomination.

Sorry, but the testimony of those "witnesses" has been written and REwritten who knows how many times.

So if I write a thing over and over it becomes less true by the end? :squint:

I need something that hasn't been subject to editing.

What, pray tell, would meet that requirement?

And given that the Romans were excellent record keepers, wouldn't there be something OUTSIDE of the bible that would give evidence to the existence of Jesus Christ?

Why? Another dead religious figure in a backwater land filled with them? Rome took notice when you'd expect them too.

See above.

Not really an answer. We both know there isn't going to be a video tape. So what would satisfy? I mean what, particularly could fulfill the objective call here? And don't feel irked with yourself if you can't come up with it. I ask that to every mistaken Atheist who sets out the old "Prove to me that God exists" challenge upon which the errant practice of apologetics is founded.

Sorry, but in the first seventeen years of my life, I experienced none of Gods love, even though I gave my life over to him wholeheartedly. In fact, as I said in an earlier post, my life only got worse. MUCH worse.

If Christ isn't he can hardly be the root of any decline in your life. If he is, well, he can hardly be the root of any decline in your life.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one then

In the moment, almost unquestionably. In the larger moment, God only knows.

I don't tend to debate religion either lol. And your view on conversion being God's business.... I wish more Christians thought like that.

Some are misguided but well intentioned works people and others would, I think, do better to simply set the example that invites the question and witness.

Well, I suppose people handle hard times in different ways. Sometimes it might bring people to God, but in other cases, it brings people AWAY from him.

Then the difficulty is in the perspective and not in God. Just so.

I look forward to it

:e4e:

 

[Stripe]

what kind of a response would satisfy you?

You could speak honestly. You were once a Christian, correct? Did you believe that Christ's completed work on the cross and your genuine faith in Him had sealed your eternity with Him and that nothing could ever sever that bond?

If you did believe that then how on earth did you become convinced that He was a liar?

If you did not believe that then would you be willing to concede that perhaps you don't quite fully understand Christianity?

Well, for starters, the word "poisoner" was replaced by the word "Witch", and the KJV was rewritten so King James could divorce his wife and remarry. I'm sure I could find many more examples if I cared to look them up atm >.<

Uh .. you're going to have to cite actual verses and manuscripts rather than just repeating opinions you've read somewhere.

I am no longer going to respond to your questions asking why I'm pagan.

:rotfl:

I think you've cracked a world record. The longest a newbie has survived against that one is 4 posts. :first:

You believe Christianity is the one true religion, I believe Paganism is the right faith for ME. Let's just agree to disagree.

Nope. Not gonna agree to that. :nono:

But It would only be my opinion, so why should you be offended by another person's opinion?

I wouldn't be offended by your opinion. I'd be offended by your choice in words. Like I said, I don't believe I would become offended by the fact that you have a different opinion.

(BTW, YES, I most certainly would stop if you asked me to, and NO, I don't think of you in that way at all. I was just trying to illustrate a point about people being offended by opinions)

OK, that's good. But you were illustrating a behaviour rather than an opinion.

If you don't mind I'd like to recap on this little conversation. I think it's important. And despite your head cold I think you sound like a reasonable kinda guy .. so, please, bear with me.

Here's how it works:
1. You have an opinion.
2. I don't like your opinion.
3. You will not change your opinion.

I'm not likely to become offended by that process, but if I were to do so would you automatically say sorry and then continue to hold the opinion?

Remember this started because you said you hope nothing you write might offend anyone. I assumed that what you write would be your opinion and asked what you would do if you offended me (with an opinion). You then said you would apologise, but continue to hold the opinion. So my logic tells me that the apology changes nothing about you.

Personally I would say that apologising for expressing an opinion can only have meaning if the opinion were to change. But perhaps you can explain to me why you would feel the need to apologise when you're not sorry.

Afterall, you did admit that you would cease with the offensive behaviour if you apologised for it.

 

[Nightangel1282]

Depends on your denomination.

Seeing as I'm a partying Pagan, I guess I'm good then

So if I write a thing over and over it becomes less true by the end? :squint:

No, if you write something over and over and either mistranslate or deliberately change some of the words (like King James did in the KJV), THEN there's an issue.

What, pray tell, would meet that requirement?

With all the people that were alive in the time of Jesus Christ, don't you think SOMEONE would have written something down somewhere, ASIDE from the Apostles? Surely the Roman Authorities would have written something down in their documents given all the miracles Jesus was said to have performed.

Why? Another dead religious figure in a backwater land filled with them? Rome took notice when you'd expect them too.

How many of those religious figures healed a man of his blindness and turned water into wine?

Not really an answer. We both know there isn't going to be a video tape. So what would satisfy? I mean what, particularly could fulfill the objective call here? And don't feel irked with yourself if you can't come up with it. I ask that to every mistaken Atheist who sets out the old "Prove to me that God exists" challenge upon which the errant practice of apologetics is founded.

I don't think there ever will be PROOF, but it would be nice to have at least SOME evidence. No amount of debate is ever going to bring forth the evidence for or against the existence of God, and I think everyone knows it, but it's kinda fun to try . It always winds up hitting the same roadblock...

Athiest: Is there an invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster living in the sky? Christian: Of course not.
Athiest: Prove to me that there isn't.

And there's the roadblock. The Athiest can't prove that there is, and the Christian can't prove that there ISN'T an invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster living in the sky.

If Christ isn't he can hardly be the root of any decline in your life. If he is, well, he can hardly be the root of any decline in your life.

Oh, I'm not saying that God or Christ is responsible for the problems I had in my life. That wouldn't make any sense when I don't believe in God. However, the fact that IF he exists and he IS omnipotent, he would have seen how much I was suffering and very easily COULD have reached out his hand to at least take the edge off. Even THAT would have been greatly appreciated. Of course, that didn't happen, and never seems to happen, no matter how much people believe.

In the moment, almost unquestionably. In the larger moment, God only knows.

I guess we'll see

Some are misguided but well intentioned works people and others would, I think, do better to simply set the example that invites the question and witness.

Okay, I'll agree with you on that one

Then the difficulty is in the perspective and not in God. Just so.

Lots of examples of where I'm just going to agree to disagree in this thread lol.

:e4e:

 

[Nightangel1282]

You could speak honestly. You were once a Christian, correct? Did you believe that Christ's completed work on the cross and your genuine faith in Him had sealed your eternity with Him and that nothing could ever sever that bond?

If you did believe that then how on earth did you become convinced that He was a liar?

If you did not believe that then would you be willing to concede that perhaps you don't quite fully understand Christianity?

I was once ROMAN CATHOLIC. NOT your definition of Christian. There is a difference. And before you go off on a tangent saying "then you weren't following the right path blah, blah, blah", the RC Church ALSO believes it is the one path to God, so prove that it isn't. Until you can do that, I have nothing more to say to you on that subject.

Uh .. you're going to have to cite actual verses and manuscripts rather than just repeating opinions you've read somewhere.

They aren't opinions, they're facts. I'm sick and am NOT going to spent half my morning browsing through bible passages from the oldest found versions of the bible to illustrate the differences between the so called "original" and the rewritten. My head feels like it's going to split open as it is and reading the bible just gives me a headache on the best of days.

:rotfl:

I think you've cracked a world record. The longest a newbie has survived against that one is 4 posts. :first:

Thank you for illustrating that you are an ignorant, intolerant jerk who is full of himself.

Nope. Not gonna agree to that. :nono:

Well, if your intention is to convert me, you're the furthest away from doing it, simply due to your attitude. I don't have the patience to put up with your crap today.

I wouldn't be offended by your opinion. I'd be offended by your choice in words. Like I said, I don't believe I would become offended by the fact that you have a different opinion.



OK, that's good. But you were illustrating a behaviour rather than an opinion.

If you don't mind I'd like to recap on this little conversation. I think it's important. And despite your head cold I think you sound like a reasonable kinda guy .. so, please, bear with me.

Here's how it works:
1. You have an opinion.
2. I don't like your opinion.
3. You will not change your opinion.

I'm not likely to become offended by that process, but if I were to do so would you automatically say sorry and then continue to hold the opinion?

Remember this started because you said you hope nothing you write might offend anyone. I assumed that what you write would be your opinion and asked what you would do if you offended me (with an opinion). You then said you would apologise, but continue to hold the opinion. So my logic tells me that the apology changes nothing about you.

Personally I would say that apologising for expressing an opinion can only have meaning if the opinion were to change. But perhaps you can explain to me why you would feel the need to apologise when you're not sorry.

Afterall, you did admit that you would cease with the offensive behaviour if you apologised for it.

Well, my opinion is changing at a rapid pace today and I am on the verge of saying my earlier example for REAL. Still not offended? If you are offended, I'm starting to not care, because it's all too obvious that YOU don't care if YOU offend ME.

 

[Stripe]

I was once ROMAN CATHOLIC. NOT your definition of Christian. There is a difference. And before you go off on a tangent saying "then you weren't following the right path blah, blah, blah", the RC Church ALSO believes it is the one path to God, so prove that it isn't.

I'm not really concerned about the label you listed under. I outlined the two possible conditions that you fell into. There are no others available to me. Faith in Jesus Christ is the only means by which a man might be saved. Believe that not and I will have my answer.

They aren't opinions, they're facts. I'm sick and am NOT going to spent half my morning browsing through bible passages from the oldest found versions of the bible to illustrate the differences between the so called "original" and the rewritten. My head feels like it's going to split open as it is and reading the bible just gives me a headache on the best of days. Thank you for illustrating that you are an ignorant, intolerant jerk who is full of himself. Well, if your intention is to convert me, you're the furthest away from doing it, simply due to your attitude. I don't have the patience to put up with your crap today. Well, my opinion is changing at a rapid pace today and I am on the verge of saying my earlier example for REAL. Still not offended? If you are offended, I'm starting to not care, because it's all too obvious that YOU don't care if YOU offend ME.

Perhaps we'll just leave it until you're feeling better then. Farewell. :wave:

 

[serpentdove]

Just stepping in for a moment...

Step in anytime. The more the merrier. :jump: And let's convince Nightangel1282 of the truth before Freelight's goofball teaching can take effect.

 

[Nightangel1282]

I'm not really concerned about the label you listed under. I outlined the two possible conditions that you fell into. There are no others available to me. Faith in Jesus Christ is the only means by which a man might be saved. Believe that not and I will have my answer.

Don't believe it. Question answered.

Perhaps we'll just leave it until you're feeling better then. Farewell. :wave:

That is, I think, the nicest suggestion you have made in any of your posts to me. Thank you, and I appreciate it. (I apologize, btw, for my harsher words in the last post to you. The fact that my heater's broken and its 30 below outside isn't helping my mood >.<)

 

[lightbringer]

Well, even though I always heard it was "kill".... Really, what the heck's the difference???

Nightangel you are correct, see Exodus 20:13 KJV, but they will deny it using their favorite re-written version. The "New" King James Version which is "You shall not murder". A perfect example of how the Bible has been changed over the years

I think you've cracked a world record. The longest a newbie has survived against that one is 4 posts. :first:

Just a game? Who would have suspected?

No, if you write something over and over and either mistranslate or deliberately change some of the words (like King James did in the KJV), THEN there's an issue.

They believe that it was written by men that where incapable of error due to Gods influence!

With all the people that were alive in the time of Jesus Christ, don't you think SOMEONE would have written something down somewhere, ASIDE from the Apostles? Surely the Roman Authorities would have written something down in their documents given all the miracles Jesus was said to have performed.

Considering that the Romans where the best record keepers of their time, yes I would think there should be some hint as to the miracles or at least the trial of Jesus.

Thank you for illustrating that you are an ignorant, intolerant jerk who is full of himself.

Bingo, you win the prize Nightangel!

 

[Nightangel1282]

Step in anytime. The more the merrier. :jump: And let's convince Nightangel1282 of the truth before Freelight's goofball teaching can take effect.

So anything that's not Christian is goofball teachings? How I love the open mindedness you are displaying {sarcasm}.
Nobody's going to convert me, or convince me of any so called 'truth', as I have already found my own. Of course, as I said, you are more than welcome to try, but you're going to have to do better than throwing scripture at me. I barely glance at them and roll my eyes.

 

[Nightangel1282]

Nightangel you are correct, see Exodus 20:13 KJV, but they will deny it using their favorite re-written version. Just as when you click on that link, you will see the "New" King James Version which is "You shall not murder". A perfect example of how the Bible has been changed over the years

Thank you so much for finding that lol. Like I said earlier, I can barely stand to read the bible on my good days, much less when I'm sick. Looking up scripture to prove my point would just make me want to crawl under my blankets and try to sleep off my oncoming migrane >.<

They believe that it was written by men that where incapable of error due to Gods influence!

Which means they also completely ignore the absolute impossibilities in some of the stories. (How anybody can actually BELIEVE Noah's Ark is beyond me, and that's just ONE of many examples)

Considering that the Romans where the best record keepers of their time, yes I would think there should be some hint as to the miracles or at least the trial of Jesus.

Exactly. And yet there is NOTHING.

Bingo, you win the prize Nightangel!

YAY!! :first:

 

[serpentdove]

"You think a God who killed the firstborn children of Egypt, flooded the earth, killing everybody but one family and a bunch of animals, who ordered people to commit atrocities against other people who thought differently is good and worthy of worship? Sorry, I'll keep living in "sin" and rebelling..."

God is just. All that he does is right and good (not for the bad guys but for the good guys [Ro 8:28]--(ask yourself why you sympathize with the bad guys by the way). Just because you do not recognize God's justice, it does not mean that he is unjust:

And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord’s passover.

For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord [Exod. 12:11–12].

"Friend, when you come to Christ, you should have your loins girded and be ready to get out of the world and no longer be involved in it. I do not believe that you can be converted and continue living a sinful life. This does not mean that you will not sin occasionally, but it does mean that you will not make a habit of living in a pattern of sin.
We had a remarkable instance of a woman in Los Angeles who ran a liquor store and was converted to Christ. She called me by phone and said she was getting out of the liquor business. She said, “If you tell me to take a hammer and break every bottle in the store, I will do it.” But it was all she had. I told her to sell the business. She sold it and is a wonderful Christian today.

You will get out of “Egypt” if the blood has been put on the doorposts. You are to eat the sacrificial lamb with your loins girt about, ready to go.

God had directed His plagues, one at a time, against the principal gods of Egypt. All of the gods demanded the offering of the firstborn. Now God is turning His guns against all the Egyptian idols."
McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (1:ix-238). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"'Thou shalt not kill?' God doesn't follow his own rules?"

God gives the rules, we follow his rules. He is the creator. We are his creation. Does a child tell his parent that he will now make the rules? Does a man jump off a building and say that he will not follow the law of gravity?

Man is not to murder. God is the giver of life so he is free to take life.

Like a gingerbread man, he says: "Run, run, as fast as you can. You can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man." You can and will catch him (Nu 32:23). :chew: The point is, God created life. It's his his universe--he makes the rules.

"I'm sure running to a third world country and feeding the poor even though you have no belief in God is going to lead to death."

To get something from God you must receive something from God (Col 2:6). He fills empty hands.

"Sorry, but after seeing hundreds of thousands of men, women and children suffering and dying, and believing there was a merciful God who was doing absolutely nothing to help abate their suffering, I think I'd lose my faith too."

The world was made perfect. It was very good (Ge 1:31). After the fall of man, it was very bad (Ge 3:13). This is what man did not God. Adam tried to cover himself with fig leaves [Ge 3:7] as men try to cover their sin with works today. But man's covering is not good enough. God only accepts perfection. His covering is good enough. God immediately provided a covering for Adam after the fall (Ge 3:21). He provided a safe place for Noah and his family (Ge 7:16) and he still provides today (Jn 3:16).

"Hate to tell you this, but quoting scripture means nothing to me."

Should I quote Stevie Nicks? Only a witch can ruin Silent Night by the way.

"So you think Dahmer's in heaven? Mother Theresa is in hell?"

Only God knows the heart of each person. We go to heaven or hell based on our relationship with Jesus Christ.

"I'm sorry, I think my respect for your religion and your God just went down even more notches."

That is because your religion is of man not God (Prov 16:25, Jude 1:11).

"You don't want to know what I think [God] is after reading this post. Trust me, it would get me banned."

He's heard it all. God asks each person: "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD." (Isa 1:18)."

"Men living in fear of God's wrath are not free."

That's true (Isa 48:22).

 

[serpentdove]

"So anything that's not Christian is goofball teachings?"

That's right (Jn 14:6, Ro 14:23).

"How I love the open mindedness you are displaying {sarcasm}."

We should not be so open-minded that our brains fall out. There is one way, one truth and one way to life (Jn 14:6). Few find it (Mt 7:14).

"Nobody's going to convert me, or convince me of any so called 'truth'..."

True enough (Mt 9:36).

"I have already found my own."

Yep (Ro 1:25).

 

[Nightangel1282]

God is just. All that he does is right and good (not for the bad guys but for the good guys (Ro 8:28)--ask yourself why you sympathize with the bad guys by the way). Just because you do not recognize God's justice, it does not mean that he is unjust:

And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord’s passover.

For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord [Exod. 12:11–12].

I refuse to follow any God who would knowingly and willfully kill/murder innocent CHILDREN to get his point across. Or are you going to tell me it's an example of the son paying for the sins of the father?
And also... what the HECK did the poor ANIMALS in Egypt do to deserve getting killed??!

"Friend, when you come to Christ, you should have your loins girded and be ready to get out of the world and no longer be involved in it. I do not believe that you can be converted and continue living a sinful life. This does not mean that you will not sin occasionally, but it does mean that you will not make a habit of living in a pattern of sin.
We had a remarkable instance of a woman in Los Angeles who ran a liquor store and was converted to Christ. She called me by phone and said she was getting out of the liquor business. She said, “If you tell me to take a hammer and break every bottle in the store, I will do it.” But it was all she had. I told her to sell the business. She sold it and is a wonderful Christian today.

Another question... if Jesus Christ turned water into wine, then why the heck do some Christians insist that alcohol is evil???

You will get out of “Egypt” if the blood has been put on the doorposts. You are to eat the sacrificial lamb with your loins girt about, ready to go.

So why did they have to kill the lambs to use their blood? If God is all knowing, couldn't he have just known which homes the Hebrews lived in? Why would he need a visual indicator?

God had directed His plagues, one at a time, against the principal gods of Egypt. All of the gods demanded the offering of the firstborn. Now God is turning His guns against all the Egyptian idols."
McGee, J. V. (1997, c1981). Thru the Bible commentary. Based on the Thru the Bible radio program. (electronic ed.) (1:ix-238). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

I don't understand how any merciful God could unleash a bunch of plagues to get his point across. I mean... to quote Penn and Teller... Couldn't God have just smacked the Pharaoh? The people of Egypt had little to no choice but to follow their ruler, so why take it out on THEM as well?

God gives the rules, we follow his rules. He is the creator. We are his creation. Does a child tell his parent that he will now make the rules? Does a man jump off a building and say that he will not follow the law of gravity?

This is your opinion and doesn't hold much weight to those who don't believe in God. Does a Parent threaten to throw their child into a lake of fire if they don't do as they're told? What kind of a father would send his children's souls to hell for an eternity for only a lifetime of sins? That, my friend, is something called OVERKILL.

Man is not to murder. God is the giver of life so he is free to take life.

My sister gave life to her children. Does that mean she is free to take their life if they tick her off?......... I didn't think so.

Imagine making a gingerbread cookie. He jumps up and says "Run, run, as fast as you can. You can't catch me I'm the gingerbread man." You made the cookie. You can out run the cookie--you can take the cookie out. :chew:

That's possibly the strangest analogy I've ever heard... but, IF something that weird were to happen... I think I'd just let the little guy get away, since I don't like gingerbread in the first place.

When you are able to create life, then perhaps you and God will have something to talk about. But until then--it's his universe and he makes the rules.

I could create life if I chose to do so, being a healthy woman in her mid twenties. It's called procreation. (I have already decided I'm never getting married or having children, however. Watching my sister go through labor 3 times was enough for me)

To get something from God you must receive something from God (Col 2:6). He fills empty hands.

Um... what? Did you type that out right because that makes absolutely zero sense to me.

The world was made perfect. It was very good (Ge 1:31). After the fall of man, it was very bad (Ge 3:13). This is what man did not God. Adam tried to cover himself with fig leaves [Ge 3:7] as men try to cover their sin with works today. But man's covering is not good enough. God only accepts perfection. His covering is good enough. God immediately provided a covering for Adam after the fall (Ge 3:21). He provided a safe place for Noah and his family (Ge 7:16) and he still provides today (Jn 3:16).

God is supposed to be omnipotent. That means he would know what was going to happen before it happened. If that's the case, then why did he bother creating Adam and Eve if he knew they were going to eat from the magical tree in the first place? How could he not have known that the serpent was in his own Garden?
And as for Noah and Noah's Ark... that is possibly even MORE unbelievable than Genesis, in my opinion. How the heck would Noah get two of every animal on the planet? How did he get them back to where they originated from after they left the Ark? Not to mention everything else that's wrong with the story. All it is, is a legend to explain the creation of the rainbow. Nothing more.

Should I quote Stevie Nicks? Only a witch can ruin Silent Night by the way.

Actually, I love Silent Night. It's a beautiful song. Just because I don't like your relgion doesn't mean I don't like some of the songs associated with it

Only God knows the heart of each person. We go to heaven or hell based on our relationship with Jesus Christ.

I have no relationship with him, so I guess I'm going to hell.

That is because your religion is of man not God (Prov 16:25, Jude 1:11).

My religion was around long before God or Jesus was even a twinkle in the eye of the world.

He's heard it all. God asks each person: "Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD." (Isa 1:18)."

He may have heard it all, but I'm sure Knight would not appreciate it lol. I'm keeping my full opinion of your God to myself because I don't want to get banned already.

That's true (Isa 48:22).

That verse doesn't seem to apply to me, because according to you, I would be classified as 'wicked' and yet my life is nice and peaceful

 

[Nightangel1282]

That's right (Jn 14:6, Ro 14:23).

Okay then.... I follow Goofball Teachings and I'm darn proud of it

We should not be so open-minded that our brains fall out. There is one way, one truth and one way to life (Jn 14:6). Few find it (Mt 7:14).

Well, that one way, one truth, and one way to life is NOT for me. I'll just enjoy my trip to Hell when the day comes.

True enough (Mt 9:36).

If, by using that scripture, you are referring to me as a lost sheep with no shepherd... I don't go "Baaaaaaaa", I don't have a curly, woolen coat, and I don't need anybody to tell me how to live my life.

Yep (Ro 1:25).

To this I say unto you.... Whatever.