Having received salvation, what is next?

[God's Truth]

We are dead when we are dead, if we not dead, why would there be a need for a raising of the dead or a resurrection?

To get a new physical body. What else? I can hardly believe you asked that.

God is God, He is not the son of God

The Son of God is called God many times in the Bible.

The Son is EXACTLY the same as the Father, there is no difference, except for the Son has a physical body; which makes no difference.

The son of God is the son of God, he is not God.

Do you obey something you do not believe to be true and good?

You know you need to explain yourself better with that one.

 

[God's Truth]

Why would I if I was kidding?

Why would you rather keep talking about the kidding statement?

 

[God's Truth]

Keeping the ten commandments are a small portion of the works of the law.

It takes work to keep them

We, in this age of grace, are not under the law for righteousness.

Nevertheless, we fulfill the law.

Romans 13:10

...which proves what I said. The only works of the law we no longer have to do because it no longer saves is the ceremonial works.

 

[oatmeal]

To get a new physical body. What else? I can hardly believe you asked that.



The Son of God is called God many times in the Bible.

The Son is EXACTLY the same as the Father, there is no difference, except for the Son has a physical body; which makes no difference.



You know you need to explain yourself better with that one.

Are you suggesting that the dead are alive?

If they are, and have been alive in heaven for hundreds if not thousands of years, then why bother with a new body?

For that matter

Why should the dead in Christ rise from dead if they are already alive?

I Thessalonians 4:13-18

The son of God is called God many times in the Bible?

How many times?

a. four

b. forty

c. four hundred?

d. other?

Which one is closest?

Would you care to list them for us?

I took a quick look, there is only one place that I could find. Hebrews 1:8.

There is John 20:28, but that is a figurative expression, using the figure of speech hendiadys, it would literally read, my godly lord!

The so called proof texts that use the verb, first person present tense,ie, I am, is not proof. I am serious? I am.

The son died, God raised him from the dead, your salvation and righteousness depended on you believing that, See Romans 10:9

God cannot be tempted, Jesus was tempted in all ways like we are yet without sin.

Jesus was conceived and born, he has a beginning, God is eternal

God is spirit, Jesus is a human being

God is all knowing, Jesus Christ is not

God is everywhere present, Jesus Christ was limited by his earthly body

You might want to review these truths

Would you like to know more about these subjects?

It is available to have clear and accurate knowledge of these things

 

[oatmeal]

...which proves what I said. The only works of the law we no longer have to do because it no longer saves is the ceremonial works.

Well, if that is what you mean then I agree.

We are no longer under the law for righteousness.

Doing the law does not make us righteous

Galatians 2:21

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Our righteousness does not come about by us doing the law, but by Jesus Christ

We are not law based, we are grace based.

 

[oatmeal]

One of the things we learn having some knowledge that the word of God can be rightly divided and how it is done is that believers can and should be likeminded on the word of God.

Whether they have differences on other issues, ie, which football team is better... is irrelevant, as long it does not cause division amongst the believers.

We are after all members in particular in the body of Christ.

We are one, we have the unity of the spirit Ephesians 4

It is our responsibility to keep that unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.

We already have it.

 

[God's Truth]

Are you suggesting that the dead are alive?

If they are, and have been alive in heaven for hundreds if not thousands of years, then why bother with a new body?

For that matter

Why should the dead in Christ rise from dead if they are already alive?

I Thessalonians 4:13-18

The son of God is called God many times in the Bible?

How many times?

a. four

b. forty

c. four hundred?

d. other?

Which one is closest?

Would you care to list them for us?

I took a quick look, there is only one place that I could find. Hebrews 1:8.

There is John 20:28, but that is a figurative expression, using the figure of speech hendiadys, it would literally read, my godly lord!

The so called proof texts that use the verb, first person present tense,ie, I am, is not proof. I am serious? I am.

The son died, God raised him from the dead, your salvation and righteousness depended on you believing that, See Romans 10:9

God cannot be tempted, Jesus was tempted in all ways like we are yet without sin.

Jesus was conceived and born, he has a beginning, God is eternal

God is spirit, Jesus is a human being

God is all knowing, Jesus Christ is not

God is everywhere present, Jesus Christ was limited by his earthly body

You might want to review these truths

Would you like to know more about these subjects?

It is available to have clear and accurate knowledge of these things

Because of the devil and sin we lose our physical body. Why shouldn't we get our bodies back?

Jesus is God and he raised himself from the dead.

 

[God's Truth]

Well, if that is what you mean then I agree.

I am so glad that you agree.

We are no longer under the law for righteousness.

We are under a new law.

Doing the law does not make us righteous

Galatians 2:21

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Those who obeyed God in the Old Testament times were righteous. I can give you scriptures saying so.

There are other translations that are better than the one you used.
I hope you study them carefully.
Here are a couple:

Weymouth New Testament
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if acquittal from guilt is obtainable through the Law, then Christ has died in vain."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
I do not reject the grace of God, for if righteousness is by The Written Law, The Messiah died for nothing.

Try more carefully to understand what Paul is saying.

He is not saying people were not righteous for following the old law. He is saying that it cannot make anyone righteous anymore, since Jesus.

Our righteousness does not come about by us doing the law, but by Jesus Christ

We are not law based, we are grace based.

Grace is that we no longer have to get circumcised in the flesh, adhere to a dietary law, do various external washings, and sacrifice animals just to go to an earthly temple. Grace is that we only have to believe we are clean by Jesus' blood for the sins we repent of doing.

 

[oatmeal]

Because of the devil and sin we lose our physical body. Why shouldn't we get our bodies back?

Jesus is God and he raised himself from the dead.

Christians are going to get new bodies as Jesus Christ's coming for his saints. I Thessalonians 4:13-18

Until they do, they are dead without consciousness in any manner.

Psalm 6:5 is one scripture that makes that clear.

For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?


There is no remembrance of God when one is dead. you cannot give thanks to God when you dead, it is impossible to do because you are dead. No consciousness whatsoever.

How much clearer can that be written?

How about Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10? Does it not say and teach us the same basic truth?

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

There is no consciousness in death, none of any kind.

Dead means dead, hence the need for us to be raised from the dead

It is not until the dead are raised, that they rise from the dead that they are "ever with the Lord" as I Thessalonians clearly teaches.

I Thessalonians 4:13-18

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

See especially verse 17, the words, " and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Jesus is not God and no more raised himself from the dead than the dead in Christ shall raise themselves up.

See verse 16 above where it states, "and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

It is because we have believed Romans 10:9 even as Jesus Christ believed the words of the OT about him that reassure both Jesus Christ and us that we will be raised from the dead.

Even our salvation, our righteousness is dependent not on believing that Jesus is God and that he raised himself from the dead, but that God raised him from the dead.

Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


does that clear that up for you?

 

[God's Truth]

Christians are going to get new bodies as Jesus Christ's coming for his saints. I Thessalonians 4:13-18

Until they do, they are dead without consciousness in any manner.

Psalm 6:5 is one scripture that makes that clear.

For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?


There is no remembrance of God when one is dead. you cannot give thanks to God when you dead, it is impossible to do because you are dead. No consciousness whatsoever.

How much clearer can that be written?

How about Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10? Does it not say and teach us the same basic truth?

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

There is no consciousness in death, none of any kind.

Dead means dead, hence the need for us to be raised from the dead

It is not until the dead are raised, that they rise from the dead that they are "ever with the Lord" as I Thessalonians clearly teaches.

Soul sleep believers try to use scripture from Ecclesiastes to support their false beliefs that our spirits do not live on after the death of our bodies, but the part of Ecclesiastes they use is about a message of if there were no God. Ecclesiastes also says the dead have no more reward (Ecclesiastes 9:5). Do you believe that the dead have no more reward? Jesus says he is coming with his reward (Rev 22:12). The Old Testament believers believed in a resurrection (Job 19:25-27; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; and others), so why would Solomon say the dead have no more reward if not to imagine a life without God.

Soul sleepers also use a few scriptures in Psalms to try to say the spirits of humans die with the body. There is no scripture in Psalms that says that. One must remember too that the Old Testament people did not yet have the entire gospel. Ecclesiastes is about earthly man. Read what Solomon says in Ecclesiastes in 3:18-21 I also thought, “As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19Man’s fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”

Did you read how Solomon says, “Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?” Solomon says, “Who knows…” Surely, the New Testament teaches us about what is spiritual and about what happens to us spiritually.

I Thessalonians 4:13-18

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

See especially verse 17, the words, " and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Jesus is not God and no more raised himself from the dead than the dead in Christ shall raise themselves up.

All humans are flesh and spirit. Jesus' Spirit is the Spirit of God. Jesus died in the body and went in his Spirit to hell and preached the gospel there, then he raised himself from the dead.

Jesus raised himself and he will raise everyone:

John 5:21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it."


Jesus says he is the resurrection:


John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

Jesus and God are the same. That is why some scriptures say God raised Jesus, and other scriptures say Jesus raised himself

See verse 16 above where it states, "and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

It is because we have believed Romans 10:9 even as Jesus Christ believed the words of the OT about him that reassure both Jesus Christ and us that we will be raised from the dead.

Even our salvation, our righteousness is dependent not on believing that Jesus is God and that he raised himself from the dead, but that God raised him from the dead.

It is good and right though to not go against the truth and to add to your faith and goodness 'knowledge':

2 Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;

Colossians 2:3
in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

 

[oatmeal]

Soul sleep believers try to use scripture from Ecclesiastes to support their false beliefs that our spirits do not live on after the death of our bodies, but the part of Ecclesiastes they use is about a message of if there were no God. Ecclesiastes also says the dead have no more reward (Ecclesiastes 9:5). Do you believe that the dead have no more reward? Jesus says he is coming with his reward (Rev 22:12). The Old Testament believers believed in a resurrection (Job 19:25-27; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; and others), so why would Solomon say the dead have no more reward if not to imagine a life without God.

Soul sleepers also use a few scriptures in Psalms to try to say the spirits of humans die with the body. There is no scripture in Psalms that says that. One must remember too that the Old Testament people did not yet have the entire gospel. Ecclesiastes is about earthly man. Read what Solomon says in Ecclesiastes in 3:18-21 I also thought, “As for men, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19Man’s fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?”

Did you read how Solomon says, “Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?” Solomon says, “Who knows…” Surely, the New Testament teaches us about what is spiritual and about what happens to us spiritually.



All humans are flesh and spirit. Jesus' Spirit is the Spirit of God. Jesus died in the body and went in his Spirit to hell and preached the gospel there, then he raised himself from the dead.

Jesus raised himself and he will raise everyone:

John 5:21 "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it."


Jesus says he is the resurrection:


John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

John 10:18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

Jesus and God are the same. That is why some scriptures say God raised Jesus, and other scriptures say Jesus raised himself



It is good and right though to not go against the truth and to add to your faith and goodness 'knowledge':

2 Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;

Colossians 2:3
in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

There is no reward for the dead because they are not alive to receive them. Neither can they earn more rewards for the dead are dead not alive.

What is soul sleep? Where is that taught in scripture?

I and the Father are one. It does not say they are the same

 

[God's Truth]

There is no reward for the dead because they are not alive to receive them. Neither can they earn more rewards for the dead are dead not alive.

You are not telling the truth, there is a reward for the dead.

What is soul sleep? Where is that taught in scripture?

There is no such thing as what you teach. The Bible teaches that the spirit does not die.

I and the Father are one. It does not say they are the same

One even means the same.

 

[oatmeal]

You are not telling the truth, there is a reward for the dead.



There is no such thing as what you teach. The Bible teaches that the spirit does not die.



One even means the same.

the dead have no reward

You yourself just shared Eccl 5:9

For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing,
And they have no more reward,
For the memory of them is forgotten.

didn't you read it?

Why not?

Why not believe it?

Of course there is such a thing.

It is clear that there is no consciousness in death, not for the body, not for the soul, not for the spirit

None whatsoever.

One does not mean the same thing it means one.

If you have one car and I have one car they are not the same care, they might be the same make and model but your one car is different than mine.

Likewise a husband and wife are to become one flesh. That is not talking about sexual intercourse but being likeminded on the word of God.

Have you ever seen both a husband and wife occupy the same body?

 

[God's Truth]

the dead have no reward

You yourself just shared Eccl 5:9

You are proving you are not considering carefully what I am saying.

For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing,
And they have no more reward,
For the memory of them is forgotten.

didn't you read it?

Why not?

Why not believe it?

You are missing the point. The point is that the dead DO HAVE A REWARD. I gave you scripture that says Jesus comes WITH A REWARD.

 

[oatmeal]

You are proving you are not considering carefully what I am saying.



You are missing the point. The point is that the dead DO HAVE A REWARD. I gave you scripture that says Jesus comes WITH A REWARD.

You contradict Eccl. Why?

 

[God's Truth]

You contradict Eccl. Why?

Why don't you pay attention? I have already explained it to you before.

 

[oatmeal]

Why don't you pay attention? I have already explained it to you before.

Your explanation is contradictory to Ecclesiastes.

Have you not noticed that?

Jesus Christ did not contradict scripture, he fulfilled it.

Jesus Christ fulfilled what is written in Ecclesiastes 9:5

Did God author scripture?

Why would He contradict himself?

 

[God's Truth]

Your explanation is contradictory to Ecclesiastes.

Have you not noticed that?

Jesus Christ did not contradict scripture, he fulfilled it.

Jesus Christ fulfilled what is written in Ecclesiastes 9:5

Did God author scripture?

Why would He contradict himself?

Stop acting like you read my post.

 

[oatmeal]

Stop acting like you read my post.

I do not teach soul sleep.

The soul is either alive or it is dead

A dead soul is a dead person

A live soul is a live person or live animal.

The dead have no more reward. Because there is no life in death, death is death, life is life

When the dead are raised, whether it be the believers in this age of grace as described in I Thessalonians 4:13-17 or the rest of man kind who will be part of either the resurrection of the just or the resurrection of the unjust, then they will have access to the rewards they have earned. The believers in this age of grace shall have good reward as will those who are in the resurrection of the just, but the reward to the unjust shall be the second death after they realize they had rejected God Almighty and all that God has made available to them

 

[oatmeal]

What does the word say we should think?