God - The Great Scientist

Lon

Lon

Well-known member
iouae said:
And what God prophesied, He brought about. There is no "spookiness" of God knowing the future, but rather God determining that in 300 years time He wants a king called Josiah to do such and such and so motivates the parents to name the baby Josiah, and through the Holy Spirit, motivates Josiah to do such and such. Likewise Cyrus was foretold, that he would let the Israelites return to Jerusalem.

Just as God foretold Jeremiah and John the Baptist would be born at such and such a time to do such and such a job, and God made sure it happened by sending an angel to John's father, telling him to get on with it.
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Doesn't spook me at all :idunno: Why would it?
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
JudgeRightly said:
Nope. Says born, and "before I formed you in the womb" implies there's something there to form.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.” - Jeremiah 1:5 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah1:5&version=NKJV

"Formed" in that verse is the word yatsar, meaning to mould or to form.

If it was conception, the word would have been harah.



Verse 11?

(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), - Romans 9:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans9:11&version=NKJV

Gennao means to be born, or to be begotten. It is not translated as "concieved" in the Bible.



Then he said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also?Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.Curds and honey He shall eat, that He may know to refuse the evil and choose the good.For before the Child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land that you dread will be forsaken by both her kings.The Lord will bring the king of Assyria upon you and your people and your father’s house—days that have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah.” - Isaiah 7:13-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah7:13-17&version=NKJV

Considering that God knew God the Son already prior to His incarnation, because He existed BEFORE the incarnation, I'm gonna go ahead and throw this one out, as God announcing His plans for His Son, who is God, it's a completely different situation, as there was never a point where the Son never existed. Humans are different, in that our existence begins at conception.



So, all God needs to do is tell the future Josiah's parents to name him Josiah, and then guide Josiah along in life.

How is that knowing Josiah before-hand?
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It is the difference between Open Theism and most of the rest of Christianity. For me, the very definition of 'foreknowledge' means literally 'knows' and it is used exactly that way in the Bible. Because of that, I couldn't be an Open Theist if I even wanted to be. It is a matter, for me, of proper definitions. Acts 2:23 Romans 8:29 Isaiah 42:9, 44:7, 46:10 Daniel 2:28 "Pro-gnosis" means literally 'Knows, before hand." It cannot be a guess as far as I understand words and their expressions. We'll have to chalk it up to our difference on this specific matter. In Him -Lon
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
Lon said:
Doesn't spook me at all :idunno: Why would it?
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Exactly. Spookiness arises when folks say God knows the future, including every decision we will ever make, like the future is already written. That is spooky, and nonsense.
 
Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

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Lon said:
It is the difference between Open Theism and most of the rest of Christianity. For me, the very definition of 'foreknowledge' means literally 'knows' and it is used exactly that way in the Bible. Because of that, I couldn't be an Open Theist if I even wanted to be. It is a matter, for me, of proper definitions. Acts 2:23 Romans 8:29 Isaiah 42:9, 44:7, 46:10 Daniel 2:28 "Pro-gnosis" means literally 'Knows, before hand." It cannot be a guess as far as I understand words and their expressions. We'll have to chalk it up to our difference on this specific matter. In Him -Lon
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See also:
https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/foreknew.html

AMR
 
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iouae

iouae

Well-known member
If one wants to know what heaven is like, look at earth.

There is science on earth, and science in heaven. There are whole laboratories devoted to developing new animals.
 
6days

6days

New member
iouae said:
There is science on earth, and science in heaven.
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The God of the Bible has perfect knowledge. Your heretical beliefs is in a bumbling experimenting God. Your God is an idol you created.
 
Idolater

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
iouae said:
Can you elaborate how this is so?
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Mass is the Church's collective celebration of the Lord Jesus Christ, for Who He is, and for what He's done, and it is how she prays collectively, as a Body, to the Father, and to the Holy Spirit. The Eucharist is probably not celebrated in heaven, is my guess, since Holy Communion is explicitly done "till he come" (1Co11:26KJV), and He's actually in heaven, so that's why I reason so. And mass consists of the liturgy of the Word, and the liturgy of the Eucharist, so one would think that the heavenly mass consists in the same liturgy of the Word, but then there must also be something replacing the liturgy of the Eucharist, for the reason I mentioned, and my thought is that it would be another heavenly liturgy that celebrates His glory, with singing and giving each other the sign of peace, and making the sign of the cross. It's just wonderful, whatever it is, because of the wonder of God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

Mind you I'm not a Catholic, and there are scholars who specialize entirely in the mass, and they would have a much better idea than me about what the heavenly mass actually is.
 
iouae

iouae

Well-known member
Idolater said:
Mass is the Church's collective celebration of the Lord Jesus Christ, for Who He is, and for what He's done, and it is how she prays collectively, as a Body, to the Father, and to the Holy Spirit. The Eucharist is probably not celebrated in heaven, is my guess, since Holy Communion is explicitly done "till he come" (1Co11:26KJV), and He's actually in heaven, so that's why I reason so. And mass consists of the liturgy of the Word, and the liturgy of the Eucharist, so one would think that the heavenly mass consists in the same liturgy of the Word, but then there must also be something replacing the liturgy of the Eucharist, for the reason I mentioned, and my thought is that it would be another heavenly liturgy that celebrates His glory, with singing and giving each other the sign of peace, and making the sign of the cross. It's just wonderful, whatever it is, because of the wonder of God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

Mind you I'm not a Catholic, and there are scholars who specialize entirely in the mass, and they would have a much better idea than me about what the heavenly mass actually is.
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There definitely are times when the heavenly host assemble in heaven. It must be amazing.
 
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