God - The Great Scientist

iouae

Well-known member
God is the "Great Scientist". This is a concept easy to understand for those whose life and work is involved with the true sciences.

In science we use scientific methods to experiment and learn and grow, till we attain better results. It is anathema for most Christians to entertain (even for a nanosecond) the idea that God may not know everything, and may be experimenting, learning and growing as time goes on. Because I am involved with science almost every day, I see in the Bible the evidence for a God who is a Great Scientist and who learns and grows and experiences the joy of an "Ah ha" moment when he discovers something new, or creates something particularly good.

I see God experimenting, learning and growing in the pages of the Bible, and in the geologic column. Hominids did not start out looking like Homo sapiens, but, with much genetic manipulation, watching how the results turned out, God finally settled on Homo sapiens as "good enough" to start creating beings in His likeness and after His image. I plan to explore this theme in this thread.
 

iouae

Well-known member
Even among non-Calvinists there is a desire in Christians to believe that God knows all things, including the future. Thus it is anathema in most Christian minds to believe that God learns, grows, experiments and improves over time. I aim to prove God does exactly this. And I am not afraid of being struck by lightning for "blaspheming" God, because I aim to prove this is the truth - and God is pro truth.

Let's look at Genesis 1. In Genesis 1:2 God has cleaned His petri dish after the last iteration of experimenting with hominids like Homo neanderthalensis, Homo habilis and Homo erectus. Earth has been scrubbed clean of hominids by a worldwide flood which leaves earth "without form and void" (Gen 1:2).

God had watched Homo neanderthalensis and figured that this hominid just needed a little tweaking and so He did so by creating Homo sapiens in the form of Adam and Eve, placing them in His garden called Eden, a small fenced area in the greater zoo which God created in the 6 days of creation described in Genesis 1.

One can see the Great Scientist exclaiming with great joy and delight, that all He created in 6 days was "very good". Those, non-scientifically inclined can still understand the excitement of creating something new and wonderful, like a new recipe or new painting. If God knew beforehand that it would turn out so well, we would not see this emotional response from God of delight at realising His dream, this fantastic new reality.

But were Adam and Eve "good enough"? They were good enough to offer them and their descendants immortality, but even they could be improved upon. So God tweaked and experimented some more, as described in the chapters from Genesis 1 onwards.

Adam and Eve were not up to scratch, even before the erroneously named "fall". Adam and Eve were fallen in mind even before they ate the fruit. God ALLOWED Satan into Eden to tempt them, because they were Laodicean in attitude towards God, which the events of the "fall" proved. And just as God anticipated, all Adam and Eve needed was a little push from Satan, to expose their Laodicean fallenness, even before the "fall". They clearly did not value their relationship with God above their relationship with each other. Hence, Adam, knowingly and willingly, chose death with Eve above life with God. So Adam demonstrated his fallenness by eating at the instigation of Eve, choosing her above God - because Adam was already fallen.

To explain this further, have you known those rich children born with a silver spoon in their mouth, who are contemptuous and ungrateful to their parents, even though live like princes? I have known one or two, which was one or two too many for my liking. Likewise, Adam and Eve were spoilt trust-fund children who NEEDED some hardship in their lives, NEEDED to lose everything, so that they could truly live, and appreciate something. So God banished them from Eden, to toil and sweat and cut themselves on thorns, and suffer heat and cold. How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

But Adam and Eve lived for 900 years. This too had to be taken away from mankind. Living that long was almost like having eternal life, but without a need for God. God knew He had to tweak human lifespan to make them more aware of their mortality. So God planned to clean the petri dish again, and start afresh. So God started planning a worldwide flood.

Knowing that God was about to destroy the earth with a flood, God did what many scientists do. He tested his creation to destruction. God unleashed the fallen angels, allowing them to mate with Homo sapiens, creating the demigods, or nephilim. God knew he would destroy these half men half "gods" in the flood. But God watched what these nephilim would do with their time as Noah built his ark. And the nephilim did what all Avengers and "superheroes" do - they warred and created violence such that it covered the earth before the flood - just like in the movies. God was about to confine and lock up the demons after the flood, because they were just too good at overwhelming mankind, and too good at dragging Homo sapiens down.

God knows that He is wonderful. But God saw that given a choice of "gods" or demons, mankind tended to choose these demons above His wonderful self. We see this in the fact that pre-flood, Abel, Enoch, Noah and possibly only a few others chose God above other "gods". And if demons were able to physically interact with humans, such as to be able to become flesh and mate with women - then humans would totally give into demons. Thus the powers of demons were curtailed after the flood, and they were prevented from manifesting themselves or manipulating the physical universe, after the flood.
 

iouae

Well-known member
Even after the flood, God has still not finished learning and tweaking His creation.

God has removed the Tree of Life. Now, His Son will have to die for us to live. Before the banishment from Eden, it was possible for one to live forever by eating of the Tree of Life. This option is now off the table.

Also, men now experience a shortening of lifespan, so that generations will pass more quickly. God sees that time is mankind's enemy, without Him. Men degrade over time. God just wanted us to live long enough to choose Him, and then die, not live 900 years in which they can develop bad habits and permanent mindsets.

God started to reveal Himself by choosing favourites, and blessing them and their descendants. So God chose Abraham, to demonstrate to the world how blessed God's chosen and favourite sons are. God's hope was that the Gentiles would see these blessings, envy Israel, and come to Him to be blessed too.

Turns out, God had something to learn about this plan. Turned out that God's chosen nation could not consistently love Him, so He could not consistently bless them. God could not bless Israel long enough for the Gentiles to see the benefits of following God. Only in Solomon's time did kings of the Gentiles, and the Queen of Sheba come to Israel to learn the God of Israel. And this did not last even to Solomon's successor. God was continually cursing Israel, and showing the Gentiles what happen if God's chosen did not obey. But there still needed to be a demonstration of what happens to those who obey Him.

So God scrapped the Old Covenant as a failed experiment, cleaned His petri dish of the Old Covenant, and proceeded to call individuals and offer them an individual New Covenant.

No longer would God bless New Covenant believers with great wealth and physical blessings (How hard it is for the rich to enter the Kingdom). Now God would bless them with a relationship with Himself. We are back to Eden where God walked with man, talked with them, and blessed them with His company.
 

iouae

Well-known member
God never intended it, but the Old Covenant produced a horrible kind of person. Israel was so scared of being cursed and sent into captivity, that they became legalistic. They invented so many rules to say, keep the Sabbath, that a good idea became bad in its implementation. And because God exercised group punishment on the whole nation sending good and bad into captivity, that the leaders persecuted those not keeping the Sabbath "correctly". This is why the Pharisees were always on Christ's case for "breaking" the Sabbath, when, in effect, Christ was keeping the Sabbath correctly.

Thus the Israelites became religious, rather than spiritual. God saw that it was impossible for normal humans to keep the spirit of His law. Maybe God learned this from watching Israel. As it turned out, the Old Covenant was a failed experiment. It produced very little good fruit, and a lot of bad. but God turns lemons into lemonade. At the very least, the Old Covenant and Old Testament taught us how God thinks.

Now we need help thinking as He thinks.

So God sent His Son to live and die as a mortal human, to get into the human mindset. When Christ rose again, having a restored divine mindset, now He could send His thoughts into our minds, so that we too could love, respect and want the Father as He, Jesus does. Thus Jesus gave us a mind which now could keep the spirit of His Father's law. And we could love and have concern for others, as God does. This mindset would not be prescribed by law but would come straight from the mind of Christ, through the Holy Spirit to our minds and thoughts.

Now we could walk with the Father, having more in common. We would be better than Adam, because Adam did not have someone helping him think as the Father thinks. Thus our walk and fellowship with the Father could be intimate, not superficial. To us, there is nothing more important than walking with God. And God provided a mechanism to remove guilt so that we would not run and hide from the Father every time we sin, as Adam and Eve did. Now we could point to Jesus as the One who has our sin imputed to Him, and we could claim His righteousness imputed to us in turn. So there was no distancing ourselves from God whether we sin or not.
 

Truster

New member
"God never intended it,"

Nothing in heaven nor on earth has ever occurred that was outside the will and purpose of the Eternal Almighty. Your view of Him is far, far to low.
 
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iouae

Well-known member
"God never intended it,"

Nothing in heaven nor on earth has ever occurred that was outside the will and purpose of the Eternal Almighty. Your view of Him is far, far to low.

1Ti 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

It is God's will that all be saved, but you have to agree that not all are saved. That is what the lake of fire is for.

So will you agree that things happen outside His will?

If God always got His will, then God would surely never have any regrets. Does that sound logical?
Yet...
Gen 6:6
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

God has regrets at having made man, and if God is grieved, it shows that events which transpired were not according to His original plan.

Here is another time God regrets doing something...
1Sa 15:35
And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

And hundreds of other instances of Godly regret.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
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Pretty words.

However, the Bible unequivocally denies the possibility of evolution, while affirming the global flood.

"Six days."

"The whole Earth."

Game. Set. Match.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
 

iouae

Well-known member
Pretty words.

However, the Bible unequivocally denies the possibility of evolution, while affirming the global flood.

"Six days."

"The whole Earth."

Game. Set. Match.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Thats wonderful news. I don't believe in evolution, I agree with the global flood, 6 days, the whole earth and the whole game, set and match. God and I are in agreement.
 

Truster

New member
1Ti 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

It is God's will that all be saved, but you have to agree that not all are saved. That is what the lake of fire is for.

So will you agree that things happen outside His will?

If God always got His will, then God would surely never have any regrets. Does that sound logical?
Yet...
Gen 6:6
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

God has regrets at having made man, and if God is grieved, it shows that events which transpired were not according to His original plan.

Here is another time God regrets doing something...
1Sa 15:35
And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

And hundreds of other instances of Godly regret.

Congratulations you have twisted three scriptures to suit your vile doctrine.

You treat scripture like a drunk uses a lamp post. For support rather than illumination. Every time you post this nonsense you are one step closer to destruction.
 

iouae

Well-known member
Congratulations you have twisted three scriptures to suit your vile doctrine.

You treat scripture like a drunk uses a lamp post. For support rather than illumination. Every time you post this nonsense you are one step closer to destruction.

Do you have any facts, logic, arguments against what I wrote?
 

iouae

Well-known member
You practice idolatry and try shape God into an image of your own making. The God of Scripture is perfect. He knows the future, thus no need to experiment.


When God performed his test/experiment on Ab, do you disagree with this scripture...?

Gen 22:12
And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

If God knew only then ("now") after Abraham began to raise the knife, then it proves God did not know before.
 

Truster

New member
Do you have any facts, logic, arguments against what I wrote?

The fact you have twisted the truth of what is written means you couldn't possibly comprehend any further truth. It has pleased the Eternal to leave you in darkness and I shall rejoice in His upright judgements.
 

iouae

Well-known member
The fact you have twisted the truth of what is written means you couldn't possibly comprehend any further truth. It has pleased the Eternal to leave you in darkness and I shall rejoice in His upright judgements.

I really am going to miss no further truth from you.
 

6days

New member
iouae said:
If God knew only then ("now") after Abraham began to raise the knife, then it proves God did not know before.
God is not a liar... He KNOWS the past and the future. Of course He knew what Abraham would do. "For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything” (1 John 3:20).


IOUAE... I believe in the omnipotent God of scripture; whereas you believe in an impotent God of your own making.
 

iouae

Well-known member
God is not a liar... He KNOWS the past and the future. Of course He knew what Abraham would do. "For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything” (1 John 3:20).
1Jo 2:20
But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things

The Bible says we know all things. Do you know the future?

IOUAE... I believe in the omnipotent God of scripture; whereas you believe in an impotent God of your own making.

Tell me this, when God chose Saul to be king, did God know Saul would turn out such a dud and ruin so many lives?

And why does God express regret at His choice of Saul, if God knew from the start Saul would mess up?

1 Sa 15:35
And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death: nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul: and the LORD repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.

Or rather, why did God not choose someone who would succeed in the first place?
 
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