I didn't get a yes/no answer to the questions yet. I mean besides the ravenator.
Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
I didn't get a yes/no answer to the questions yet. I mean besides the ravenator.
If you don't believe in the real Jesus Christ, just as if you don't believe in the real God, then you CASN'T be saved. Confess means to agree with God, who Jesus is, and as Jesus is our God and Savior, anything less is NOT salvation.
I suggest you read John 2:19 (NIV), and as Rom 1:4 (NIV) is speaking of Jesus, you have obviously contradicted yourself.
Jesus Christ is God, In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.
The Father is God, for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall be saved
The Holy Spirit is God for My Father will send you another Comforter who will be with you and shall be in you.
Which of these scriptures do you deny?
Say you are walking along your merry way one day by the side of the way, and suddenly you fall into a muddy pit, and you cannot get yourself out of the miry pit for the life of you. And after a while you give up trying, and begin to hope and pray for someone else to come along the way; and by and by, indeed, there comes a Mighty One; walking in the Ruach of the day. So you cry out at the top of your lungs for help; and HO ON the Mighty One hears your cries, and comes to the rescue. And He says unto you, "Grab hold of My Right Arm, which is Mighty to save! and I will lift you up out of the pit to safety!" Then the Mighty One lowers His Mighty Right Arm to you in the pit, and you grab hold onto the Mighty Right Arm, clinging to His Arm for the life of you. And with His Mighty Right Arm, which is Mighty to save, the Mighty One lifts you up out of the miry pit to safety. Do you then humbly bow and begin to give thanks and blessings to His Mighty Right Arm? or do you humbly bow and begin to give thanks the Mighty One Himself, bestowing honor and blessing to the One who truly saved you? I say, that if you bow and begin to worship His Mighty Right Arm, the Arm will in turn say unto you: "I know you not, for I and my brethren who snatched you up in the fingers of my hand; we only serve my Father, doing all that He commands us to do!" O Kurie, who has believed our report? and to whom has the Arm of YHWH been revealed?
:sheep:
Your story doesn't quite fit.
For the Father did not reach down with His arm to pluck me from the mire, He sent His only begotten Son and it was HE who reached out and plucked me from the mire.
It astounds me the pure simplicity of this fact...so clear and yet you fail to grasp it.
The Son must be as the Father and the Father as the Son. If the Father is God then the Son must be God also. Every son is the same in essence as the father.
And Jesus Christ IS the JahWeh of the OT speaking through the prophets.
oatmeal
Well-known member
You still choose to ignore Acts 2:22, I Timothy 2:5, Acts 10:38, Galatians 1:1, Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1,14,18, John 3:16-17, John 5:19,30, John 6:32-33,37-38, John 8:28,40,42,52-58, John 10:26-36, Acts 1:9, Acts 2:27,30-36;3:15,22-26;4:10-12
with so many verses, many which I did not list that tells us that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead.
with so many verses that make a clear distinction between God and the man Christ Jesus
with so many verses that show that the Father is greater than the son,
it is clear, you have no interest in the scripture, except for a small handful that you think supports your unsupportable threeology.
No, I just KNOW how to read and basic English. A trait you are severely lacking it apparently.
genuineoriginal
New member
That is not a very Christian thing to put into a neg rep.
Do you even know the Holy Spirit?
genuineoriginal
New member
Matthew 16:16-17 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. |
So you don't agree with what Thomas said? MY LORD AND MY GOD!
oatmeal
Well-known member
You are no position to criticize, how is it that you think you can read?
Where is your evidence that I lack?
You have not given any evidence, until you do, you remain an accuser of the brethren.
Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.
Whose Christ? His. His who? God's Christ.
Your threeology is pitifully lacking scripture support.
Yet I show you verse after verse that teaches that Jesus is subordinate, derived and inferior to the Father.
genuineoriginal
New member
Why do you think it matters?
This is from the Gospel message preached on Pentecost by Peter in the words given to him by the Holy Spirit:
Acts 2:32-33 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. |
The words given to Peter by the Holy Spirit contains no indication of the Trinity, but treat Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit as three distinct and separate persons.
You must believe the Gospel in order to be saved.
You do not have to believe in the Trinity to be saved, especially since the clear words of scripture teach something other than the Trinity.
genuineoriginal
New member
You didn't get yes/no answers, but you did get Biblical answers.
You are so good, brother.
genuineoriginal
New member
Yes, you can.
Trinitarians can be saved the same manner as anti-Trinitarians, and visa-versa.
Acts 15:10-11 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. |
No, the verse specifically states that you must confess that Jesus is your Lord (master) and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead.
What you are doing is not what the verse says you must do to be saved, since you are basically denying that God raised Jesus from the dead.
The Judas kiss
genuineoriginal
New member
None of them, but can you really say the same?
That verse does not say that Jesus is the word, nor does it say that the Messiah (Christ) is the word, nor does it say that the Holy Spirit is the word.
John the baptist was very clear about who he believed Jesus to be.
John 1:34 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. |
Who gave who?
Did God give God, or did the Father (whom Jesus calls the only true God) give the Son?
Which one is it?
Who will send who?
Did God's God send another God, or did Jesus' Father (the only true God) send the Holy Spirit?
As you should be able to see, there are different ways to understand the verses.
One way is to believe in the Trinity and have that belief change how you read the verses, the other way is to read the verses for their plain meaning and understand them at face value.
Are you willing to claim that anyone that reads the verses for their plain meaning and understands them at face value has forfeited their salvation?
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
genuineoriginal
New member
No, you don't, and you keep proving that you don't know how to read basic English every time you post scriptures and claim they say something that it is obvious that they don't actually say.
Maybe you should look into taking some reading comprehension classes.
genuineoriginal
New member
Do you agree with what God said unto Moses?
Exodus 7:1 1 And the Lord said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. |
If God can make Moses into a god, why would He be unable to do the same a second time?
Oh, wait, God said He would do it a second time.
Deuteronomy 18:18 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. |
Regardless of whether Jesus is God Himself come in the flesh or a man approved of God (Acts 2:22), I know that God is able to provide us with salvation through Jesus the Messiah because that is what the Bible clearly states.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Dear Lord. Where do these people come from who claim to believe but deny the deity of Christ?
linger: