Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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glorydaz
Well-known member
Please tell me you did not just say that..... :doh:
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
No, it was a couple days ago.:chuckle:
Father hasn't let him play with the real sword yet, he wouldn't have a nose yuh knows?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, hopefully you've mended your ways since then. I doubt I could handle many more of those word pictures.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Sorry it was stuck in my mind since somebody private repped me awhile back and said the dude probably does it before making any given post.
Had to get it outta there somehow.
So yep, my mind is now mended, thanks, sis.
Well I pity the fools that listened to you...they probably need reprograming.
It's sad you think like this when you know nothing.
Does this though help with your cognitive dissonance?
I am NOT able to show blind people, I agree. Only God can and as you obviously don't know that, it appears He has left you to your own devices.
Like I said, showing blind people something right in front of their noses is NOT what I do. My words are for people who CAN see and hear what the truth of God's word says.
That you need a secular dictionary and an actual word to see who God is in the whole of scripture, is YOUR short coming.
ALL of the scriptures adds up to who God is.
Are you sitting in a room? Does it have three dimensions? How many rooms are you in, ONE or THREE?
Do you accept the Omni attributes of God? Show those words to me in scripture.
We ALL know who is the failure here. The one who DOESN'T see the true God and Savior Jesus Christ.
If you were able to prove it doesn't by ANY scripture that would be a real treat.
If you don't believe in the ONE true savior of mankind, then you can't be saved by Him.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Fulfilling the two requirements of Romans 10:9-10 is the how of receiving the gift of salvation.
The two requirements are clear
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
No trinity or anything resembling it whatsoever.
As it is with the rest of scripture.
In fact it corrects the error of believing that a dead Jesus Christ raised himself from the dead.
The wording is clear, God raised him from the dead.
Which is the proof that Jesus is the son of God with power. Romans 1:4
Jesus was dead, he could not raise himself from the dead. Dead means dead.
oatmeal
Well-known member
You have not, you cannot, you are afraid of I Timothy 2:5, Acts 2:22, Acts 10:38Galatians 1:1 and the other like verses.
You willfully ignore the clear message of those verses.
If you read them and understood them and believed them, you would begin to wonder how anyone could believe in a trinity with evidence lack that so contrary to the trinity.
Trins acknowledge that "trinity, triune....." are words not found in scripture.
God did not use those words because those words do not describe him.
Trins had to make them up in order to deceive people into believing the trinity
Show me where God uses the words "trinity, triune, God-man, fully God/fully man, God the Son.....
I have given you verses that clearly show that God and Jesus, although similar, are not identical.
God is God
Jesus is a man anointed by God, approved by God, the son of God.
Your trinity has pagan origins, when pagans converted to Christianity, some added the God of scripture to their list of gods. Then blended them together.
They never totally discarded their old idols
God is God, Jesus is a man who believed God.
genuineoriginal
New member
No, they are not.
Your words are for people that have been programmed by their church to assume that the Bible says what the church teaches, but are not willing to actually look in the Bible for themselves to see.
The definition came from the Catholic Encyclopedia. Since the Church of Rome formalized the doctrine of the Trinity, their definition is supposed to be the definitive one.
Yes, and since the majority of the Bible (99.999%) does not add up to the Trinity doctrine, it is no stretch to make the claim that the Bible does not teach the Trinity.
However, you seem to believe that the majority of the Bible needs to be thrown out in order to accommodate your belief.
Why is that?
There is one Omni attribute of God taught in the Bible.
Revelation 19:6 6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. |
Most of the time this is rendered as Almighty.
Genesis 17:1 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. |
The rest of the Omni attributes come from Greek Philosophy and are imposed in the reading of the scriptures, just like the doctrine of the Trinity is imposed in the reading of the scriptures.
All of the verses that are used to support the other Omni attributes can easily be explained using fact that God is Almighty.
I see both of them in the scripture.
Which of those two are you failing to see?
genuineoriginal
New member
You would like me to prove that belief in the Trinity is not necessary for salvation?
Sure.
Mark 16:15-17 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. |
Belief in the Gospel is necessary for salvation.
John 3:16-18 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. |
Belief that God gave His only begotten Son is necessary for salvation.
Do you believe that God sent His Son into the world?
Do you believe in the Son of God?
Acts 16:30-31 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. |
Do you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ?
Romans 10:9 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. |
Do you believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead?
Matthew 1
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.
John 5
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
John 14
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
The Holy Spirit is the father of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Father is the father of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you have seen the Lord Jesus Christ, you have seen the Father.
These three are one.
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.
John 5
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
John 14
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
The Holy Spirit is the father of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Father is the father of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you have seen the Lord Jesus Christ, you have seen the Father.
These three are one.
Yep.
And we have scripture that outright states it.
1 John 5 KJV
(7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(7) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
genuineoriginal
New member
That is what the whole Trinity debate is about, right?
God mentions that there are other gods.
Exodus 20:1-3 1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. |
Joshua mentions the other gods that were worshipped in Egypt.
Joshua 24:14-15 14 Now therefore fear the Lord, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the Lord. 15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. |
Jesus says that the Father is the only true God.
John 17:1-4 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. |
genuineoriginal
New member
So, Jesus is the child of the Holy Spirit, and so Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.
Got it.
So, Jesus claimed that God was His Father, and so Jesus is not His Father.
Got it.
So, Jesus was sent by the Father, and so Jesus is not the Father.
Got it.
You left out the verse that explains the verse you quoted.
John 14:10 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. |
So, the Father dwells in Jesus and does the works, and so Jesus is not the Father.
Got it.
Yes, this is what the verses state.
That is a conclusion that is not born out from the words of the verses.
genuineoriginal
New member
1 John 5:5 5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? |
Isn't it amazing that the letter does not say anything about believing that Jesus is God, but deliberately wrote that we are to believe that Jesus is the Son of God (as he was moved to write by the Holy Spirit)?
Yes;
Acts 5:3-5 Modern English Version (MEV)
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to deceive the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, was it not your own? And when it was sold, was it not under your authority? Why have you conceived this deed in your heart? You did not lie to men, but to God.”
5 On hearing these words, Ananias fell down and died. And great fear came on all those who heard these things.
John 8
23 And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
Well, who is "he"?
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Then meshak and oatmeal took up stones to throw at him.....