Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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RevTestament
New member
:thumb:
Is there some group which calls themselves "Christianos?"Actually that would be "Christianos" but when I signed up the only two I saw that even looked close outwardly were "Christian" and "Christian (other)" so instead I simply chose other. To be "Christian" according to the prevalent mainstream understanding of today one must sign on to at least one of several different possible creeds of man and believe in a Trinity, (and I suppose this is my answer to this thread). However, to be Christianos, one must actually have Messiah being formed within. This however seems to be taught as works and "falling from grace" in the mainstream Christian pulpits of today; and that is because it requires first of all the water immersion of Yochanan, which is Torah, Prophets, and Writings, which is essentially the name of the Father, (and His name is in Eliyahu, Exodus 23:21). And after at least a basic knowledge of Tanach then at least one full year of full intense immersion into the Testimony of Yeshua found in the Gospel accounts is required, (as it is written in Acts 11:26). And as for Messiah being formed in you, well, I did just explain that process in my previous post. Sons of God are not born of women.
Being that is in the Greek NT as what Christians were first called in Antioch, I don't see a real distinction. However, I do see a lot of the early Greek emphasis in you. I certainly do agree in the emphasis in following the Way. I believe the Christians referred to themselves as followers of the Way before being called Christians.
Dan Emanuel
Active member
I dispute that.
I don't dispute that. I merely contend that the murder of Jame's put it in there head's that they needed to think about the future of the Church, that our Lord had given to them as His steward's/servant's. There job was the Church, and when Jame's was murdered, that meant something to them that they did not consider before this.
And Paul certainly provided the Apostle's the needed impetus to hold the 1st council, which concerned itself with Gentile's. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentile's, and Peter had been given a vision about Gentile's too. Thats why I said what I did.
Daniel
Have done...you ignore or deny. Not wasting my time on repeating myself constantly for a blind and deaf person.
As I already have and just can't be bothered repeating myself, this would be another simply fallacious denial with NO truth in it.
No, they are taken IN context along with those that shows who God and Jesus is, like John 1:1, 14, 18 (NIV)
Again you deny clear evidence which you WILL be held accountable for.
I have already shown it and as you're the only one that says this I guess you must be blind or deceived.
Another Arian...you all seem to be attracted to this site?
WHO have you been taught by? Satan, the father of lies?
God's WORD and THE Word has taught me.
Jesus said: I and the Father are one.
Jesus said: If you've seen me you've seen the Father.
Jesus said: If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
Jesus said: You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
Jesus said: If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
Jesus said: You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Jesus said: Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
Heb 1:8
But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.”
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
2 Peter 1:11
and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
2 Peter 3:2
I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
Col 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:9-10
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.
Titus 1:3
and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior,
Titus 1:4
To Titus, my true son in our common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.
Titus 2:10
and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
Titus 2:13
while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
Titus 3:6
whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior
Is 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Is 43:11-12
I, yes I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. I’ve revealed and saved and proclaimed, when there was no foreign god among you — and you are my witnesses,” declares the LORD.
The modern English Bible tells us what Jesus said, and it doesn't use a conglomeration of Hebrew and English to obfuscate the truth of who our God and Savior is.
It's already been well established that the rope skipping lamb knows NOTHING of God's Word.
You're just like the rope skipping lamb. :loser:
genuineoriginal
New member
No, just someone that defends what the Bible actually teaches as opposed to what the churches teach but is not taught by the Bible.
Look closely at the verses you posted.
There is not a single verse in the list that even hints at a trinity, much less teaches it.
You may have been taught to believe in the trinity, but that belief did not come from the verses you posted.
If you think I am mistaken, then take one of the verses and show me where it teaches the trinity.
oatmeal
Well-known member
So you show again that you do not understand John 1:1,14,18 because you cannot read them.
You do not answer my questions because you have no answers, no evidence, all you have man's traditions, with a light sprinkle of a few verses of scripture on the top.
If, for once on this subject, you started with scripture, instead of an error, you would reject the trinity.
The trinity reminds me of a counterfeit $1000 bill.
It is tempting to try to pass off that counterfeit, but it is unethical and deceptive.
Start with scripture, you will learn more than you could ever imagine
oatmeal
Well-known member
You have not yet learned, let alone believe what those verses say.
The bible never once calls God a Trinity of Persons or a triune Person.
Never the less God is described everywhere in the NT as being three quite distinct Persons yet one God.
The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit who the Father sends in Jesus name is God.
All three distinct Persons of this triune Being are involved in our salvation...you can neither dispense with or diminish any one of them.
Never the less God is described everywhere in the NT as being three quite distinct Persons yet one God.
The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit who the Father sends in Jesus name is God.
All three distinct Persons of this triune Being are involved in our salvation...you can neither dispense with or diminish any one of them.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Do you know why, because God's words, the scriptures do not teach a trinity.
As many titles, names and attributes that God calls Himself, He, not once refers to himself as a trinity or triune. The reason for that is because God is not a trinity or triune.
If He wanted to be known by that He would have made that know in scripture.
IF He wanted believing in a trinity a requirement to be a Christian, the least He could have done is say so,
BUT HE DID NOT!
He listed the two requirements to receive salvation in Romans 10:9-10
oatmeal
Says EVERY Uni of this site, and not one of them can back it up with TRUTH or properly exegeted scriptures. :loser:
You keep telling yourself this oatmeal...I'm sure those voices yelling at you will go away sometime when you learn to tune them out.
FYI it's called cognitive dissonance...look it up.
and yet you TEACH nothing, you just claim and assert.
Friend I have known them for over 45 years, as I've known my true God and Savior. Sad you cannot say the same thing. :nono:
These verses teach what is required to know, the divinity of Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Father. That you believe in the three Omni's of God but don't believe in His triune nature makes you simple a hypocrite of God's Word.
I learned from God's word based on true teaching but I guess you just got your views off of comic books?
I can't SHOW a blind person anything. You either can see or can't, and in your case it is very obvious you can't!
Say you are walking along your merry way one day by the side of the way, and suddenly you fall into a muddy pit, and you cannot get yourself out of the miry pit for the life of you. And after a while you give up trying, and begin to hope and pray for someone else to come along the way; and by and by, indeed, there comes a Mighty One; walking in the Ruach of the day. So you cry out at the top of your lungs for help; and HO ON the Mighty One hears your cries, and comes to the rescue. And He says unto you, "Grab hold of My Right Arm, which is Mighty to save! and I will lift you up out of the pit to safety!" Then the Mighty One lowers His Mighty Right Arm to you in the pit, and you grab hold onto the Mighty Right Arm, clinging to His Arm for the life of you. And with His Mighty Right Arm, which is Mighty to save, the Mighty One lifts you up out of the miry pit to safety. Do you then humbly bow and begin to give thanks and blessings to His Mighty Right Arm? or do you humbly bow and begin to give thanks the Mighty One Himself, bestowing honor and blessing to the One who truly saved you? I say, that if you bow and begin to worship His Mighty Right Arm, the Arm will in turn say unto you: "I know you not, for I and my brethren who snatched you up in the fingers of my hand; we only serve my Father, doing all that He commands us to do!" O Kurie, who has believed our report? and to whom has the Arm of YHWH been revealed?
:sheep:
genuineoriginal
New member
You claim that God is described everywhere in the NT as being three quite distinct persons, and this part may or may not be true.
What is true is that three quite distinct persons are mentioned throughout the NT: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
You further claim that God is being described everywhere in the NT as being three quite distinct Persons that are one God.
This part is 99.9% false.
There may be three verses in the New Testament that could be interpreted as describing the trinity.
genuineoriginal
New member
I have taught that the Bible says nothing about belief in the trinity being necessary for salvation.
I have taught that the trinity is not a Biblical doctrine, it is an extra-Biblical teaching.
You appear to be unteachable and unwilling to teach in return.
It is sad that you can never know whether I know my true God and my Savior until you humble yourself and start to listen to what they say.
Excuse me, but are you really that ignorant of what the words in the verses you posted actually state?
You didn't take any time to actually read them, did you?
If you did take time to look at the words, you didn't take any time at all to try to see what they actually said, did you?
No, you are too blind to show anyone anything.
I gave you a challenge that you refused to accept.
Here it is again:
If you think I am mistaken, then take one of the verses and show me where it teaches the trinity.
You couldn't do this simple task.
Let's try this together, so the people reading this thread can see how your verses were lacking.
First, a definition of Trinity:
"The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another."
Now, one of the verses you posted:
2 Peter 2:20
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
Now, count the number of persons from the Trinity mentioned in this verse.
One.
One person.
Not three persons, but one person.
No, this verse does not teach the Trinity, nor can it even be used as proof of the Trinity.
You have failed.
genuineoriginal
New member
People like StanJ will not be able to understand that I am objecting to the lies told by people that claim the Bible teaches the Trinity (it doesn't) or claim that belief in the Trinity is necessary for salvation (it is not) or claim that only people who believe in the Trinity are Christians (not true).