Do you have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian?

[Nick M]

Where does the Bible say you have to believe in the trinity to be saved?

Your rejection of the divine nature of the Lord Jesus Christ is evidence you do not have his mind nor are you indwelt as Christians are.

 

[Nick M]

Simply not true.

Go to hell you Christ rejecting pervert.

 

[glorydaz]

Your rejection of the divine nature of the Lord Jesus Christ is evidence you do not have his mind nor are you indwelt as Christians are.

Yep. :thumb:

 

[daqq]

Go to hell you Christ rejecting pervert.

Haha, you already said that to me once in your negative rep, and wow, you have lotsa power to kill! But the Kingdom of God comes with Power and thank God you are not the Judge you think you are! :crackup:

:sheep:

 

[meshak]

Haha, you already said that to me once in your negative rep, and wow, you have lotsa power to kill! But the Kingdom of God comes with Power and thank God you are not the Judge you think you are! :crackup:

:sheep:

He has been doing that to me ever since I joined this site.

He does not realize he does not have power to judge anyone.

 

[meshak]

simple. You must continue in the word of
Christ to be a disciple of Christ.

I like simple and to the point.

Too many mumble jumble in man-made doctrines.

 

[Dan Emanuel]

Moses:

Genesis 1

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

Numbers 6

24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.​

The Apostle Matthew:

Matthew 28

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:​

Luke:

Luke 3

21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.​

The Apostle Paul:

2 Corinthians 13

14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.​

The Apostle Peter:

1 Peter 1

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.​

The Apostle John:

1 John 5

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.​

Daniel

 

[glorydaz]

He has been doing that to me ever since I joined this site.

He does not realize he does not have power to judge anyone.

1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Cor. 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Cor. 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

 

[oatmeal]

The Jews said he claimed to be God.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Don't back off meshak, you had it right, Jesus is God!

Context doesn't matter to you?

The people whose testimony about what Jesus words mean, did not even believe he was the Messiah!

John 10:24

Did they not accuse him of blasphemy?

You really want to believe the judgement of people who accuse Jesus Christ of blasphemy?

John 10:34-36

 

[oatmeal]

and yet you ignore and refuse to address them and counter with others you takes OUT of context or equivocate on. I'd say you have a lot of trouble reading scripture with proper hermeneutical understanding.

Matt 10:33 (NIV)

Why don't you read and reply to the rest of my post?

It because you would rather ignore all those verses that show your conclusions to be faulty and groundless.

It is sad that you would ignore those verses and the others like it.

Too bad you have to reject those verses so that you can keep your traditions.

 

[StanJ]

Why don't you read and reply to the rest of my post?
It because you would rather ignore all those verses that show your conclusions to be faulty and groundless.
It is sad that you would ignore those verses and the others like it.
Too bad you have to reject those verses so that you can keep your traditions.

No, it's because I know your conclusions are faulty. I don't need to read the same verses over and over again to know what they say.
Just because I don't show them when quoting you, doesn't mean I ignore them, it just means I ignore your conclusions. So far you haven't shown that you know what you're talking about. You should know by now I am succinct and NOT superfluous in my posts, unlike you.

 

[daqq]

He has been doing that to me ever since I joined this site.

He does not realize he does not have power to judge anyone.

Yes, I saw on one of the previous pages where he falsely accused you, and therefore lied about you, accusing you of using "the Lord's name in vain" and calling you a "wench", when in fact all you did was answer someone else and answered correctly. That is what happens when you put too much power in the hands of someone with murder in his heart, (for as the scripture says, Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life dwelling in him, 1 John 3:15, because murders proceed from the heart and come out from the mouth, and with such things the man is defiled, Matthew 15:18-19).

The question must be asked, who is Christ?

Jesus, who else?

Don't take the Lord's name in vain you wench.

Not to worry, as I keep telling Stan the man, he cannot stab spirit with a kitchen knife. :chuckle:

 

[StanJ]

Not to worry, as I keep telling Stan the man, he cannot stab spirit with a kitchen knife.

and I keep telling you I don't use a kitchen knife, I use the Sword of the Word of God;
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Heb 4:12 (NIV)

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Whose kingdom and how many thrones does it have?

Is his throne visible or invisible?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

and I keep telling you I don't use a kitchen knife, I use the Sword of the Word of God;

Yep, to dig them boogers out yer finger wont reach.:chuckle:

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Haha, you already said that to me once in your negative rep, and wow, you have lotsa power to kill! But the Kingdom of God comes with Power and thank God you are not the Judge you think you are! :crackup:

:sheep:

He cant help it.

He knows he's missing sumpthin' and is gnashing his teeth on those who have it.

 

[freelight]

Love edifies..........

Love edifies..........

He has been doing that to me ever since I joined this site.

He does not realize he does not have power to judge anyone.

According to the Lord Jesus we are also judged by the words that come out of our mouths (audible, written, whatever). Even calling another a 'fool' we may be in danger of coming before the judgment seat. We are either justified or condemned by our words....so words have great power. We ought to remember that before cursing another.

Telling another to "go to hell" is probably the most anti-Christian thing someone can say.


Blessings,



pj

 

[genuineoriginal]

True/Real Christians believe and accept the Triune nature of God because the scriptures teach it.

Jesus never taught that God has a triune nature, neither did any of the Apostles, nor did any of the prophets.

You have been taught that God has a triune nature by your church, and never bothered to check out whether the Bible actually taught that.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the Son of God.
You will find the phrase "Son of God" is in the KJV a total of 47 times.

There are less than 10 verses that people are able to use to claim that the Bible teaches the trinity, and not a single one of the verses actually teaches the trinity.

 

[daqq]

and I keep telling you I don't use a kitchen knife, I use the Sword of the Word of God;
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Heb 4:12 (NIV)

Yeshua said that he came to send a machaira-sword of spiritual warfare upon the earth. Do you not understand that Stan the man is the Land? You are to use the Sword of the Word against yourself and your own "unruly members" of your own household, like that little member the tongue, which lights on fire the fiery inferno of Gehenna. The Sword is not for you to use against everyone else including your brethren. Your self righteousness has blinded you of this fact or else you would judge yourself so that you be not judged. Torah works the same way: do you see me going around condemning everyone who does not observe Torah? I use it against myself, not my brother, and it is a rod of iron in my hand when I use it lawfully to keep my own body in submission.

:sheep:

and I keep telling you I don't use a kitchen knife, I use the Sword of the Word of God;

Yep, to dig them boogers out yer finger wont reach.:chuckle:

If that were true even that would be better than trying to chop off the hands and feet of his brethren, eh brother? Chop, chop, if your hand or foot, or any other little member of your household offend you, cut him off and cast him from you, well, I perceive you know this already. :chuckle:

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

What does "theology proper" mean to you?

Theology Proper is distinguished (from General Theology) as the study of God Himself.

In my opinion theology proper is Torah, Prophets, and Writings understood through the lenses of the Testimony of Yeshua. This goes back to what I said previously, (and what I said in what you have quoted builds upon what I said previously) because in my understanding testimony is pneuma-breath-wind-spirit. Therefore if one does not have the Testimony of Yeshua, and hold it in uprightness according to Torah and Tanach, then the same neither has Spirit Holy. Is it therefore "theology proper" to misinterpret critical statements and words in Torah so as to make a theological statement out of something in the Apostolic writings that actually is not there? Yeshua was not even referencing Exodus 3:14 in the statement of John 8:58. It is a blatant misapplication to form a doctrine out of thin air. There is clearly no such thing as "the great I AM" statement in John 8:58 because the whole idea is based in a false interpretation of the name in Exodus 3:14. In addition there is even more compelling evidence in that 'anokiy is used in the same passage to say "I am" while 'EHYEH is rendered as "HO ON" in the Septuagint.

Well... This discourse was based on a misperception of what Theology Proper is.

I think you inadvertently answered my question, though.

Exodus 3:6 Transliterated Unaccented
6. Wayo'mer, 'Anokiy 'Elohey 'abiyka; 'Elohey 'Abraham, 'Elohey Yitschaq, we-'Elohey Ya`qob.Wayacter Mosheh panayw kiy yare' mehabiyT 'el-ha-'Elohiym.

Exodus 3:6 KJV
6. Moreover he said, I am [HSN#0595 'anokiy] the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

It is the "I AM" crowd that are propagating a fraudulent theology based in misinterpretations of key words from key phrases while their scholarship clearly had previous information laid out for them in the Septuagint which they know was rendered some three hundred years before the advent of Messiah, (at least the Torah portions) and was therefore rendered with neither a messianic nor an anti-messianic bias because Messiah had not yet come when the Septuagint was rendered from the Hebrew of that time.

1) The Testimony of Yeshua is the Spirit.
2) There is no great "I AM" statement.

In regards to what I said previously about pneuma in this thread:

John 7:39 KJV
39. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet *given*; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

John 7:39 YLT
39. and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Can you provide at least one Greek text which states or implies that the Spirit was not yet *given* in this passage? There are none but rather the word given has been inserted into nearly all English texts. It says pretty much exactly what the Young's Literal Bible Translation says: The Spirit was NOT YET because Yeshua was NOT YET glorified. And where was Yeshua glorified? Would that not be when he was lifted up at Golgotha? Therefore this statement explicitly teaches the reader that the Testimony of Yeshua is the Spirit. The reason the Spirit was not yet is because the Testimony of Yeshua was not yet compete until he said "IT IS FINISHED", commended his Spirit into the hands of the Father, and breathed out his last. Theology proper does not add or insert words into key places so as to force a preconceived dogma into the text. And as I also said previously this is a gaping hole in modern Trinitarian theology because the assumption that pneuma is always a literal entity is not proven and, in fact, refuted by the above and by the Testimony of Yeshua who tells us that his words are Spirit. The Testimony of Yeshua is Holy Spirit and therefore anyone who does not have and hold it in uprightness neither has Spirit Holy but is rather fooling himself or herself.

Well... This again seems centered on the same misunderstanding of the term Theology Proper; but since I am a Uni-Hypostatic Trinitarian, I concur that the Holy Spirit is not an individuated hypostasis ("person"), just as the Logos/Son is not.

Thanks for clarifying; and now you're familiar with the term Theology Proper.