DO WE HAVE TO KEEP THE LAW

Jacob

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Actually, James writes that faith without works is dead (James 2:18-26 KJV), but that was never said to us (James 1:1 KJV). So while some might say that faith without works is dead misapplying it to us, grace without works isn't dead (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV)! Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13 KJV) given the dispensation of the grace of God to usward (Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV). If you want to know what was said to us, you'll find it in the form of sound words (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV) of Romans through Philemon.
James was written to the twelve tribes dispersed abroad. Whether Jew or Gentile you can learn from it.

I am not a dispensationalist. I believe Paul was given a dispensation of grace.

Ephesians 3:2 NASB - 2 if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;
 

iouae

Well-known member
Matthew 10:5-6 KJV

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable...(2 Timothy 3:16-17). It means what it says, as it says it and to whom it says it. It's all written FOR our learning (Romans 15:4), but it's not ALL written TO us or about us.

Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13 KJV, 1 Timothy 2:7 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:11 KJV). We are to follow him in doctrine (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV, 1 Corinthians 11:1 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:2 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV).

The form of sound words of Romans through Philemon (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV) is written directly TO the church, the Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:23 KJV, Ephesians 5:30 KJV, Colossians 1:24-29 KJV).

Jesus said He was sent to Israel.

Please do not tell me you also negate the Gospels.

I heard this doctrine last time I visited here that only Paul applies to us today. It has a name which I forget.

Its a false belief. Both Jesus and Paul and all the NT writers proclaim the same Gospel, and its all for us.
 

Right Divider

Body part
I believe we are in the kingdom now. Jesus said it was at hand and Paul said we are transferred to it.

Col. 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
This is because you confuse the earthly kingdom and the heavenly one. These two will be joined in the future.
Eph 1:7-12 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:7) In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; (1:8) Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; (1:9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: (1:10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him: (1:11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (1:12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
 

SeraphimsCherub

New member
Yea, and the only way we're ever going to be enabled to do this, is by the Eternal Almighty Power of The Most High God Himself.


Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Yea, and the only way we're ever going to be enabled to do this, is by the Eternal Almighty Power of The Most High God Himself.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Yes, God will do this for Israel.
Ezek 36:28-38 (AKJV/PCE)
(36:28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. (36:29) I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. (36:30) And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. (36:31) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that [were] not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. (36:32) Not for your sakes do I [this], saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. (36:33) Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause [you] to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. (36:34) And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. (36:35) And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities [are become] fenced, [and] are inhabited. (36:36) Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined [places, and] plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken [it], and I will do [it]. (36:37) Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet [for] this be inquired of by the house of Israel, to do [it] for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. (36:38) As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I [am] the LORD.
 

SeraphimsCherub

New member
The Gentile church (believers) were, and have been grafted into the original fig tree( the Israel oF God) of the true church of YHWH. The same thing applies to all believers..

Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.


Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
By placing yourself under the law, you are under a curse. Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Are you referring to the Mosaic law which has not been observed since 70 CE?

If no one today can place themselves under a law that is no longer viable, what is your point?

:think:
 

Derf

Well-known member
I'm not under the law, but grace (Romans 6:14 KJV). I am dead to the law (Romans 7:4 KJV, Galatians 2:19-21 KJV).

Which do you have to keep?

You didn't answer my question yet. Which laws do you NOT want to keep?

This is not too difficult a question, is it? I could list a few for you and make it multiple choice.
  • Murder
  • Theft
  • Adultery
  • Bearing false witness

And I might add another question: Why not?
 

patrick jane

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You didn't answer my question yet. Which laws do you NOT want to keep?

This is not too difficult a question, is it? I could list a few for you and make it multiple choice.
  • Murder
  • Theft
  • Adultery
  • Bearing false witness

And I might add another question: Why not?
Just make the distinction in your mind that murder, theft, adultery or any other command has nothing to do with salvation anymore.
 

Jacob

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If a person is saved are they in the kingdom of God? If a person is in the kingdom of God are they saved?

Salvation and the kingdom of God and what relationship if any exists (or does exist or will exist) between the two.
 

Ben Masada

New member
A person must have faith. It is Jesus who saves a person.

That's not what Jesus said. He said that we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law to achieve salvation. If you don't believe me, read Luke 16:29-31. How could I stop listening to Jesus to listen to you? I am sure you would agree with me.
 

Ben Masada

New member
What translation are you using? I believe salvation is by grace through faith. Salvation is of God in Jesus alone.

No, salvation is not of God but of ourselves to use our Freewill and accept it. No one is forced to accept salvation. We can't achieve salvation if we do not accept it voluntarily.
 

meshak

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If a person is saved are they in the kingdom of God? If a person is in the kingdom of God are they saved?

Salvation and the kingdom of God and what relationship if any exists (or does exist or will exist) between the two.

Saved ones will be in God's kingdom.

There are two kinds of kingdom: on earth and in heaven. It is in the Lord's prayer.

Why is it so hard to understand?
 

Jacob

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That's not what Jesus said. He said that we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law to achieve salvation. If you don't believe me, read Luke 16:29-31. How could I stop listening to Jesus to listen to you? I am sure you would agree with me.
I agree we should listen to Moses as Jesus said. A person is saved by God and Jesus though.
 

Jacob

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No, salvation is not of God but of ourselves to use our Freewill and accept it. No one is forced to accept salvation. We can't achieve salvation if we do not accept it voluntarily.

Salvation is either offered by God or it is a gift. It would be wrong to say a person can earn salvation or have more salvation than another person because of the works they have performed. Either God saves a person, or a person cannot be saved. Each of us have sinned, each and every one of us apart from Jesus. Salvation is in God and Jesus.
 

Jacob

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Saved ones will be in God's kingdom.

There are two kinds of kingdom: on earth and in heaven. It is in the Lord's prayer.

Why is it so hard to understand?

When a person is saved do they become a part of the kingdom of God, or is that later?
 
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