Discussion thread for AMR and God's Truth Trinity Debate.

[God's Truth]

Huh? He is giving thoughtful substance, while you are being unresponsive overall. Pride goes before a fall.

That is what I was thinking about AMR and you.

 

[God's Truth]

You are confusing the uncreated eternal spirit nature of God with Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The triad relates to each other. Father/Son/Holy Spirit are in the same category.

What does that mean? They are in the same category. No. They are the same. There is only one Spirit.

Saying angels, demons are spirits, God is spirit (vs matter), man has a spirit, etc. is not the same as HOLY SPIRIT. Jesus sends the Holy Spirit who is spirit like the Father and Son are.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Son.

Oneness is hopelessly convoluted and unbiblical. You have been misled by your unnamed false teachers (you still refuse to admit you have been influenced by writers or groups....there is no true group of believers except you?). What other odd views do you have?

Jesus said he himself lives in believers. The Bible says the Holy Spirit lives in believers. You figure it out.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I am so pleasantly surprised to hear you say that. I will make a point of getting it written out soon. Thank you.

Wonderful!

Please let me know when you post it.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

You do not have to worry about me and what I teach.

What church do you attend and submit yourself to for worship and teaching?

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Are you deliberately speaking untruths?



If the trinitarians would replace essence with Spirit they would have to change their whole doctrine.


That is nonsense speech.



The trinity doctrine says that God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have the same essence---change essence to the word Spirit then you get the truth that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same Spirit. If you say they are the same Spirit, then you say Jesus is also God the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are three and the three are the same.


He challenged me, and you are speaking falseness about me.


You are going against your trinity doctrine when you say they are one spirit. They are one Spirit. That is what I have been trying to get you to see.


You are so confused. Now you say there are three different spirits.


If Jesus is God, and he is, then he is also the Father who is God. If Jesus is God, and he is, then he is also the Holy Spirit who is God.

You are in so much confusion that you do not even grasp that you accuse me of your false beliefs.

GT, if you will carefully check the debate thread you will find my quote of your challenge to debate me that you posted a while ago. So gr is not being untruthful. You are wrong.

AMR

 

[godrulz]

What church do you attend and submit yourself to for worship and teaching?

AMR

He will not say because he has something to hide? I have asked for weeks with no answer.

I probably makes more sense to debate Oneness Bernard or Unitarian Buzzard, etc. than GT. These guys are the influential modalists, Arians, etc. GT has a unique version that could take a life time to pin down like jello.

 

[God's Truth]

Wonderful!

Please let me know when you post it.

AMR

Thanks again.

 

[God's Truth]

What church do you attend and submit yourself to for worship and teaching?

AMR

I belong to the body of Christ.

We have to search for God on our own. We also have to check with the scriptures for everything that we are taught to see if what we are taught is God's Truth. All should spend some time alone with the Holy Spirit and the Bible. If you are only listening to what a denomination says, you might not hear what God is saying.

 

[God's Truth]

GT, if you will carefully check the debate thread you will find my quote of your challenge to debate me that you posted a while ago. So gr is not being untruthful. You are wrong.

AMR

I do not agree with you.

 

[godrulz]

I belong to the body of Christ.

We have to search for God on our own. We also have to check with the scriptures for everything that we are taught to see if what we are taught is God's Truth. All should spend some time alone with the Holy Spirit and the Bible. If you are only listening to what a denomination says, you might not hear what God is saying.

Many people with false teachings say this. The Body of Christ includes local churches that are visible in addition to the invisible Church universal. The Spirit uses godly leadership, local churches, the Word, etc. to preserve sound doctrine. When someone is an oxymoronic Lone Ranger Christian, they are acting contrary to Scripture and prone to error and deception.

 

[godrulz]

"It is not so because you say it is.
I thought you regarded yourself as an educated man. Mormons do not believe Jesus is God". GT

JWs, Unitarians, Jews, Muslims, etc. deny that Jesus is God.

I have read the Book of Mormon and official LDS teaching. They certainly do believe in false gods, polytheism, but they do not deny that Jesus is God. They believe that Jesus is Alpha and Omega, Jehovah God. They say the Father is another God named Elohim. They say the gods are one God as one family of God, etc. I disagree with their views and it is not true Deity of Christ, but they do say He is God, not created being like JWs who deny trinity and Deity of Christ.

You still say AMR believes in 3 gods. He is painstakingly showing you your confusion on essence and personal distinction and categorically does not believe in 3 gods. This is your straw man argument because you are biblically and theologically lacking.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I belong to the body of Christ.

We have to search for God on our own. We also have to check with the scriptures for everything that we are taught to see if what we are taught is God's Truth. All should spend some time alone with the Holy Spirit and the Bible. If you are only listening to what a denomination says, you might not hear what God is saying.

In other words, you attend no church for cororate worship, teaching, and discipline. Got it.

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

I do not agree with you.

Your own words contradict you:

You do not debate me because you know you will lose.

AMR

 

[God's Truth]

Your own words contradict you:



AMR

You do lose, and you cannot see it.

 

[oatmeal]

Are you being sarcastic?

This post from you is no more than a worthless opinion.

Likewise,

Is there a Biblical trinity?

How many do you want?

Peter, James and John

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

The three daughters of Job 1:2

The Lord, Satan and Job of Job 1:8

Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego

body and soul and spirit of I Thessalonians 5:23

the law, the prophets and the psalms of Luke 24:44

Which ones do AMR believe in?

Or does he believe in all of them?

Does scripture call any of the triplets I listed a trinity?

Why not?

 

[oatmeal]

You do not believe that God has the power and authority to interject Himself into human history by incarnating Himself as a perfect being to offer us salvation through a sacrifice of Self?
A self that was witnessed by countless persons as risen from the dead and ascended into heaven?
You are saying there are lies in the New Testament and you are calling the witness of the Apostles lies?

What a foolish man you are you are!

You do not believe that God has the power and authority to interject Himself into human history by incarnating Himself as a perfect being to offer us salvation through a sacrifice of Self?

Since God is able to make children of Abraham out of stones,

Matthew 3:9
And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Luke 3:8
Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

it does not seem to be any stretch of the imagination that your supposition is true as well.

However, is this discussion about?

a. Is God able to do that?

b. Did God do that?

Is there any record that God did make children of Abraham out of stones?

Like wise there is no record that God interjected

Himself into human history by incarnating Himself as a perfect being to offer us salvation through a sacrifice of Self

Did God become flesh?

The trinitarian God is made up of

1. Father

2. Son

3. the Holy Spirit

Did Father and Son and Holy Spirit being one become flesh?

Or was it just the Son part become flesh?

Was it God in God's entirety become flesh?

or was it just one third of God that became flesh?

What is the scriptural answer?

 

[oatmeal]

If you have a son, he would be a man (human), right?
But he would not be you.

Of course, the Word who was God became flesh and dwelt among us. That's not how you had your son, was it? You didn't become flesh and move into the nursery as a baby. You can't use your human reasoning to understand the deity of Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

I John 4:2-3

I confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh

Trinitarians confess that God is come in the flesh

What does I John 4:2-3 declare as right doctrine?

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Since trins say "God is come in the flesh" trins do not have right doctrine.

Since God is able of stones to make children of Abraham, see my post above.

I do not see any problem with God having a son that is purely human.

 

[God's Truth]

Many people with false teachings say this.

Your denomination is something some man or woman came up with and spread.

The Body of Christ includes local churches that are visible in addition to the invisible Church universal.

The body of Christ includes only those who are saved.

The Spirit uses godly leadership, local churches, the Word, etc. to preserve sound doctrine. When someone is an oxymoronic Lone Ranger Christian, they are acting contrary to Scripture and prone to error and deception.

John Calvin started out as a Lone Ranger, as did Luther, Wesley, and all others.

Even Apostle Paul appeared to be a Lone Ranger at times.

Who cares about your false assertions? What does calling someone a Lone Ranger prove? Since when does calling someone a Lone Ranger make what they teach a lie? The Catholics have a big following, so do the Mormons. So then, what do you think you have proven?

Whether someone starts out as a Lone Ranger and stays that way, whether the Lone Ranger has a big following, or small…it makes no difference. What matters is God’s Truth.

Let’s grow in knowledge in the Lord. Let us look to the scriptures and see the truth. However, your denomination from the Lone Ranger who started your religion will not let you read the truth. Your denomination will not let you be corrected, to learn truth, and grow. Neither will the Catholics, neither will the Lutherans, or any other denominations. Denominations stifle the truth from being known. They teach falseness and hinder people from God. They write down in document their beliefs, and they cannot be corrected about anything ever again.

 

[steko]

by Oatmeal:

Did Father and Son and Holy Spirit being one become flesh?

Or was it just the Son part become flesh?

Was it God in God's entirety become flesh?

or was it just one third of God that became flesh?

What is the scriptural answer?

The scriptural answer:

The Word which was with GOD and was GOD, became flesh and dwelt with men.

This is a great mystery and ultimately beyond out ability to totally understand, but that's what the scripture says. One can choose to bow to the authority of what GOD has revealed in scripture or one can choose not to and attempt to explain it away.

 

[oatmeal]

The scriptural answer:

The Word which was with GOD and was GOD, became flesh and dwelt with men.

This is a great mystery and ultimately beyond out ability to totally understand, but that's what the scripture says. One can choose to bow to the authority of what GOD has revealed in scripture or one can choose not to and attempt to explain it away.

So then,

a. all of God became flesh?

b. one third of God became flesh?