Discussion thread for AMR and God's Truth Trinity Debate.

[God's Truth]

It is you who is having a reading problem. My last post was agreeing with you. I also said that I think you will find the truth you seek.

If you do not have a reading problem, and you agree with what I said, as you say, then you would have heard that I already have the truth.

You misunderstood me friend. I do not agree with your conclusions but I feel that you will to fond truth will pay off. We all have flaws to work out.

I said you have flaws and you went against me. You are somewhat here and there, still in confusion.

I disagree that Jesus is God. He is the son of God. They are not one and the same.

You are terribly wrong. Jesus is God come as a Son of Man, a Son of God.
I know what you believe and it is wrong.

 

[God's Truth]

Okay, now that GT has explained in a little more detail,

That is really something that you will at least admit that, unlike some that say I am doing no such thing.

is anyone that is following the debate able to sum up what GT believes about the Father, Son and Holy Spirit ;and how they relate to each other? It seems to me that when GT uses the name or title "God" that he/she is referring to the Father.

I am referring to the Father when I say God, and that is because the scriptures say there is ONLY ONE GOD, and that HE IS THE FATHER.
Do you understand that?
The Bible says that there is only one God and He is the Father. However, trinitarians say there is one God the Father, and another God called Jesus. That is a false docrine.

It also seems that GT believes that the Spirit (Father) united with a body of flesh and became known as "Jesus"?

I would say that is correct. However, Jesus’ flesh is no mere flesh, for it is flesh conceived without a human father.

I'm not sure if this flesh body is the same "spiritual body" that his/her "Jesus" had prior to coming to earth?

No.
The Spiritual body that Jesus had before coming to earth is a body that is not like a human body in that it ages and dies. The scriptures say we will have a body at the resurrection like Jesus’ body. The scriptures also say that we do not know what this body is like until we see him when he comes, for we will be like him.
1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

I still don't understand where the Spirit comes in to play? Maybe GT believes that the "Spirit" is the description of the Father and Son's invisibility?

The scriptures say that God is invisible.
The scriptures say that God lives in unapproachable light.
The scriptures also say that Jesus is the visible of the invisible God.
Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
We can see that Jesus as a human is the visible of the invisible God; he is also this before he comes to earth. He is also the visible of the invisible God before coming to earth. Jesus was raised from the dead and given a glorified body in heaven IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD. He had that same glory with God before the creation of the world.

If anyone could summarize, or if GT could explain or correct what I have written, it would be appreciated

I cannot tell you how glad I am to hear these questions from you. I hope I have helped you to understand better.

 

[God's Truth]

Having re-read Gt's remarks, I am still not understanding how Jesus and the Father are EXACTLY the same,

The Father and Jesus are the same, exactly.
God is Spirit, and Jesus is Spirit---the same Spirit. There is only One Spirit.

See Ephesians 4:4, and Ephesians 2:18.

yet GT says that Jesus brought the Father glory on earth
and also that Jesus existed with God before coming to earth.??

Jesus says he came from heaven.

 

[fishrovmen]

Ok GT, so when you use the name "Jesus", you are only referring to His earthly ministry? Before and after coming to earth, He would be referred to as God, or Father? is this correct? And when you say "Spirit", you are referring to the fact that God is not visible?

 

[keypurr]

If you do not have a reading problem, and you agree with what I said, as you say, then you would have heard that I already have the truth.

I said you have flaws and you went against me. You are somewhat here and there, still in confusion.

You are terribly wrong. Jesus is God come as a Son of Man, a Son of God.
I know what you believe and it is wrong.

I can only pray that you find real truth. Christ has a God who sent him to us. Jesus was a man born to Mary. God did not send himself to save the world, he sent his spiritual son to do that. God can not die, Jesus Christ died. God raised him up from the dead. That was God's plan. There is more to believe than what you have learned already.

I was supporting you for I think you will find truth in the years to come. The trins will never see the words that are in scripture for they are content to sit in darkness and let the church think for them, you are not. It took me over 65 years to see God's truth and I am still learning.

 

[God's Truth]

Ok GT, so when you use the name "Jesus", you are only referring to His earthly ministry? Before and after coming to earth, He would be referred to as God, or Father? is this correct? And when you say "Spirit", you are referring to the fact that God is not visible?

That is right.

The name Jesus, Jesus coming as God in the flesh, and salvation through Jesus...those are things that were hidden.

Ephesians 6:19 Pray also for me, that whenever I open my mouth, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel,

Romans 16:25 Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,

Ephesians 3:3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly.

Ephesians 3:4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ,

Ephesians 3:9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Colossians 4:3 And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains.

 

[God's Truth]

I can only pray that you find real truth. Christ has a God who sent him to us. Jesus was a man born to Mary. God did not send himself to save the world, he sent his spiritual son to do that. God can not die, Jesus Christ died. God raised him up from the dead. That was God's plan. There is more to believe than what you have learned already.

I was supporting you for I think you will find truth in the years to come. The trins will never see the words that are in scripture for they are content to sit in darkness and let the church think for them, you are not. It took me over 65 years to see God's truth and I am still learning.

You say you are still learning; however, the truth is that you still need to learn but refuse to hear the truth and believe.
You should not pray for me but for yourself. You are in confusion. Your beliefs make two Sons. There is only one begotten Son. You are in confusion.

 

[keypurr]

Having re-read Gt's remarks, I am still not understanding how Jesus and the Father are EXACTLY the same, yet GT says that Jesus brought the Father glory on earth and also that Jesus existed with God before coming to earth.??

In Heb 1, it speaks of a son who was at the creation. Folks, in error, have been taught that that son is Jesus. But a carefully study on the first four verses show that God made an exact copy of himself, a spiritual son Christ. This was his first creation for God created all things through this son. When the time was right, God sent Christ to dwell in the man he created for the purpose of saving mankind from the works of Satan.

Christ (not Jesus) is that exact copy of God, He was the highest being in heaven under God. To us he had the powers of his father. Jesus is the body God prepared to hold Christ who is spirit. Heb 10:5
God could not trust that power to any sinful man. Jesus became the Christ at his anointing. Acts 10:38

Ponder on this and see if you think it is possible

 

[fishrovmen]

GT, if Jesus was just a temporary name that dealt with the earthly ministry; then what does this "Jesus" that existed/exists with God before and after the earthly revelation refer to? Is "Jesus" the name that refers to the spiritual body?

 

[keypurr]

You say you are still learning; however, the truth is that you still need to learn but refuse to hear the truth and believe.
You should not pray for me but for yourself. You are in confusion. Your beliefs make two Sons. There is only one begotten Son. You are in confusion.

Yes there is only one begotten son, that means only one son BORN, his son Christ is a creation, the first creation and is spirit just like the father.

God is not a man, IT is spirit, we relate to it by seeing it a the person of God. Older translations use the term IT not HE in John 1. This tells us that Christ was spirit before he was dwelling in Jesus. Christ became a man to die for us. Christ is the son God sent for it was the son he had to send. Jesus is God's sinless FLESH son, he is the body God provided for Christ to live in and speak through.

Save yourself many years of seeking by understanding what that might mean if it is true.

 

[God's Truth]

GT, if Jesus was just a temporary name that dealt with the earthly ministry; then what does this "Jesus" that existed/exists with God before and after the earthly revelation refer to? Is "Jesus" the name that refers to the spiritual body?

Jesus is the name of God in the flesh. It is also the name exalted above all others.
It is the name we go through to be saved.
When we come to God through Jesus...we have actually come to God in heaven.

See Hebrews 12:22.

 

[fishrovmen]

GT, if this body of flesh only existed during the earthly ministry (for you say that "Jesus" existed in a spiritual body before coming to earth) then what does "Jesus" refer to before and after the earthly visitation? In other words, if "Jesus" ONLY refers to the spirit Father indwelling a fleshly body; and that body no longer exists, nor existed prior to the earthly visitation; then what does "Jesus" refer to NOW? And what did "Jesus" refer to before the creation of the flesh body?

 

[God's Truth]

GT, if this body of flesh only existed during the earthly ministry (for you say that "Jesus" existed in a spiritual body before coming to earth) then what does "Jesus" refer to before

The plan for salvation through Jesus was made before the creation of the world.

However, salvation through Jesus was a mystery kept hidden until revealed in the New Testament.

and after the earthly visitation?

Jesus is the name of the person we go through to get to God.

In other words, if "Jesus" ONLY refers to the spirit Father indwelling a fleshly body; and that body no longer exists,

Our bodies will be resurrected in to a spiritual body at the resurrection. Jesus is the First and the Last. Jesus has the Spiritual body now of the Man Jesus. It is the same Spiritual body he had before the creation of the world.

God made the plan for salvation to be through Jesus before He made anything. All things are before Jesus…all things were made by, through, and for Jesus.

nor existed prior to the earthly visitation; then what does "Jesus" refer to NOW? And what did "Jesus" refer to before the creation of the flesh body?

Jesus was God come to us in the flesh. This Jesus came to us on earth; he died, rose again, and is seated at the right hand of God in heaven.

We all have to go through Jesus; Jesus who died for us.

 

[fishrovmen]

GT, did you not say that "Jesus" refers ONLY to the union of the spirit Father and the flesh body?

 

[fishrovmen]

GT, in other words; if I put a penny into a coin wrapper and call the both together a "roll" and then I take the wrapper away, what is left is a penny. The term "roll" only referred to the combination of the penny and the wrapper. In applying this to your "Jesus", you said that the Father joined with the flesh body and became "Jesus"; so now that the flesh body is gone, what is left is the Father, correct?

 

[God's Truth]

GT, did you not say that "Jesus" refers ONLY to the union of the spirit Father and the flesh body?

Keep rereading and study harder. With the measure you use it will be measured to you.

 

[God's Truth]

GT, in other words; if I put a penny into a coin wrapper and call the both together a "roll" and then I take the wrapper away, what is left is a penny. The term "roll" only referred to the combination of the penny and the wrapper. In applying this to your "Jesus", you said that the Father joined with the flesh body and became "Jesus"; so now that the flesh body is gone, what is left is the Father, correct?

How many times do you have to be told that Jesus still has a body, just not a human body, but a Spiritual body?

 

[fishrovmen]

I cannot tell you how glad I am to hear these questions from you. I hope I have helped you to understand better.

If your so happy and your trying to help me understand, then answer the question GT because I am not understanding.

 

[fishrovmen]

So Jesus is now the Father in a spiritual body?

 

[fishrovmen]

ok I studied real hard and I got it ! The spirit Father existed with Jesus who didn't yet exist because the Father couldn't see him in his spiritual body. So the father created a flesh body and jumped in it and called it Jesus (the son he never had). Then he ditched the flesh body and now he sits next to himself. So which one is Jesus? the one on the left or right? oh that's right, there is no difference they're exactly the same.