Denial of the deity of Jesus

[Bright Raven]

False. There can be no salvation outside of the soul. Anything outside of the soul is man-made. The soul is salvation in itself and it never separated from God nor does it depend on time, unlike the trinity. The Holy Spirit didn't come until AFTER Jesus. Why should we believe in a trinity when it clearly depends on the man-made concept of time. God is timelessness. We are one with this timelessness through the soul.

Strange.

Romans 10:9-10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Yes.

Men make up their own terms more suited to what they think.

Maybe the Trinitarians can say how many consciousnesses was God before the creation, without admitting they believe in three Gods.

LA

Scripturally demonstrate your 'three gods' concept.

Good luck...

You just did by not being able to deny you believe God is three consciousnesses.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You keep saying that, yet no orthodox Jew or Rabbi teaches that. Any 'proof texts' granted are read into.

You are also 'projecting' your own case, saying I'm a broken record,...since you are the broken record mirroring back to itself defending yourself with ad homimens. I expound on many different subjects exploring their various aspects and dimensions both philosophically and theologically. This includes doing what research is required to explore all possible or probable points of view on any particular or general subject.

Jesus was more formally made to be 'God' as beliefs and theology later developed about him, which was put in creeds and dogmatized by the Roman church-state, of which other various views of Christology formed and were continually debated,...the rest is history. As we've covered many times before,...a 'Unitarian' view of Jesus is just as good as a Trinitarian one, the only problems being with the religionists and their assumptions themselves, demanding that a 'theology' or 'Christology' be this or that, per their own philosophical reasoning or preferred theology.

Thrins follow men for their views, not the Lord Jesus Christ.

LA

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Strange.

Romans 10:9-10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Salvation is a feeling of everlasting value, significance, importance and worth. One does not feel it by simply saying some words. Resorting to that is going to prevent us from actually experiencing what the words point to because we have a predisposed idea of how we think God, heaven and salvation should look. Man does not define God. God defines man. Please understand the bible points to something way way bigger and better than can one can imagine. Sooner or later we actually will have to learn to let the bible go if we really want to experience God. The path to the soul requires letting go of family, scriptures, cars, words, thoughts, ideas, sounds, vision, cell phones, identity, personality, desire, books, knowledge. Literally EVERYTHING. Hanging on to anything even just a little bit is a mechanism of the adversary which is the personality whose job is to keep us separate from what is infinite and eternal. Word of caution.

If we're hanging on to the bible, then the best one can do is to feel a little bit of salvation here and there depending on how well we can hold onto our beliefs or how well we can follow the rules, etc. This is the false version of the real salvation which is unconditional, omni-present and one with omniscience in itself. The words of these passages fall very short of the true glory of God's salvation. They don't say anything about how it feels or how to actually get to that state. I don't claim to have all the answers so I encourage people to find out for themselves the real meaning behind the scriptures.

 

[Bright Raven]

Salvation is a feeling of everlasting value, significance, importance and worth. One does not feel it by simply saying some words. Resorting to that is going to prevent us from actually experiencing what the words point to because we have a predisposed idea of how we think God, heaven and salvation should look. Man does not define God. God defines man. Please understand the bible points to something way way bigger and better than can one can imagine. Sooner or later we actually will have to learn to let the bible go if we really want to experience God. The path to the soul requires letting go of family, scriptures, cars, words, thoughts, ideas, sounds, vision, cell phones, identity, personality, desire, books, knowledge. Literally EVERYTHING. Hanging on to anything even just a little bit is a mechanism of the adversary which is the personality whose job is to keep us separate from what is infinite and eternal. Word of caution.

If we're hanging on to the bible, then the best one can do is to experience a little bit of salvation here and there depending on how well we can hold onto our beliefs or how well we can follow the rules, etc. This is the false version of the real salvation which is unconditional, omni-present and one with omniscience in itself. The words of these passages fall very short of the true glory of God's salvation. They don't say anything about how it feels or how to actually get to that state. I don't claim to have all the answers so I encourage people to find out for themselves the real meaning behind the scriptures.

Do you believe in the eternality of Jesus Christ?

1 John 1:1-2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Introduction, The Incarnate Word
1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— 2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

 

[Apple7]

You keep saying that, yet no orthodox Jew or Rabbi teaches that.

Non sequitur.

A Jew, by definition, is one who rejects Jesus' divinity.....so why would they teach it to begin with?

Any 'proof texts' granted are read into.

Like this one...?


Isa 54.5

For your Makers (plural) are your husbands (plural); Yahweh of Hosts is His name; and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of all the earth.

Jesus was more formally made to be 'God' as beliefs and theology later developed about him, which was put in creeds and dogmatized by the Roman church-state, of which other various views of Christology formed and were continually debated,...the rest is history.

Jesus is Theos based upon the established rules of Greek grammar, alone....independent of your worldview.

I have already shown you this, numerous times, as the 'archives' of this forum prove-out....(Hey, I can do it too!).

As we've covered many times before,...a 'Unitarian' view of Jesus is just as good as a Trinitarian one, the only problems being with the religionists and their assumptions themselves, demanding that a 'theology' or 'Christology' be this or that, per their own philosophical reasoning or preferred theology.

A Unitarian view is unsupported by scripture.

 

[Apple7]

False. There can be no salvation outside of the soul. Anything outside of the soul is man-made. The soul is salvation in itself and it never separated from God nor does it depend on time, unlike the trinity. The Holy Spirit didn't come until AFTER Jesus (the reality is that Jesus and the Holy Spirit point to something larger). Why should we believe in a trinity when it clearly depends on the man-made concept of time? God is timelessness. Scripture is not. It points to that which is. We are one with this timelessness through the soul.

Time was made by mankind?

No, brother, man did not make time....he put a label on the laws of physics which were created by God.

Your philosophical musings don't hold up to scripture nor the sciences.

You just like to hear yourself talk...

 

[Apple7]

Strange.

Romans 10:9-10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

:up:

 

[Apple7]

You just did by not being able to deny you believe God is three consciousnesses.

LA

Not impressed.

 

[Apple7]

Thrins follow men for their views, not the Lord Jesus Christ.

LA

Yahweh is a Man of war; Yahweh is His name. (Exo 15.3)

 

[Apple7]

If we're hanging on to the bible, then the best one can do is to feel a little bit of salvation here and there depending on how well we can hold onto our beliefs or how well we can follow the rules, etc.

Start quoting some scripture, brother.

Impress us.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Do you believe in the eternality of Jesus Christ?

1 John 1:1-2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Introduction, The Incarnate Word
1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— 2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—

Let's go there. Please explain to what it is referring when it says "What was from the beginning". Can there actually be a beginning to what is eternal?

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Time was made by mankind?

No, brother, man did not make time....he put a label on the laws of physics which were created by God.

Your philosophical musings don't hold up to scripture nor the sciences.

You just like to hear yourself talk...

Why should I care if if holds up to your interpretation of the scripture or sciences? I'm not here to prove anything to you.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Start quoting some scripture, brother.

Impress us.

I feel like your desire to feel impressed is evidence of an unconscious lack of self-worth. There is no amount of scripture quoting that's gonna fix that.

 

[Apple7]

Why should I care if if holds up to your interpretation of the scripture or sciences? I'm not here to prove anything to you.

So...

You are on a Christian theology based forum, and you can't be bothered with the discussion of scripture?

 

[Bright Raven]

So...

You are on a Christian theology based forum, and you can't be bothered with the discussion of scripture?

I haven't seen anything yet either.

 

[Apple7]

I feel like your desire to feel impressed is evidence of an unconscious lack of self-worth. There is no amount of scripture quoting that's gonna fix that.

If you cannot provide a scriptural reference point, then how can you be against it?

Looks like you are in battle with a straw man of your own creation...

 

[Apple7]

I haven't seen anything yet either.

:up:

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Have we wondered why the soul is rarely discussed and why very little is written about it in the scriptures? Behold the cornerstone the builders rejected. It's not included in the trinity because the church doesn't think it's important. Yet what is the measure of a person's self-worth? Traditional Christianity doesn't recognize the soul as the root of self-esteem and our ultimate identity because people think its more important to be Catholic. Are we willing to neglect the most valuable part of us at such a cheap price? Is being a Catholic more valuable than the soul? Is the bible more valuable than the soul? Is there anything more valuable than the soul? We know something is wrong with traditional Christianity because of the violence and warfare that has surrounded it throughout its history. Is it more likely that these are the results of God or the results of the enemy? Traditional Christianity doesn't feel totally right. We know there is some truth there but it is not clear. People instinctively know that something is missing. What is this something that's missing?

One cannot outwit the soul because it is one with infinite intelligence. It peers right through the personality and watches as it tries to hang on to the scriptures as a shield to hide behind its lack of self-worth. The soul doesn't lift a finger yet it is all-powerful because it is one with God. This is not found in the scriptures because most men have decided to reject the soul and therefore have rejected God in the process. Do we think the enemy is going to advertise these punches? No, it will keep this a secret as it has kept humanity in the dark for centuries. Add the shining light of the soul to traditional Christianity and viola, we can see that it makes much more sense. The personality cannot hide forever. It thrives on being undetectable and it is too proud to admit it has done anything wrong by rejecting the soul. That would mean shame and guilt and no one wants to deal with it. It's much easier and more convenient to come up with some sort of belief to sweep the shame and guilt the under the rug instead. It will hang on to its beliefs even though it is causing much pain and turmoil for humanity. It doesn't know any better.

 

[Apple7]

Have we wondered why the soul is rarely discussed and why very little is written about it in the scriptures? Behold the cornerstone the builders rejected. It's not included in the trinity because the church doesn't think it's important. Yet what is the measure of a person's self-worth? Traditional Christianity doesn't recognize the soul as the root of self-esteem and our ultimate identity because people think its more important to be Catholic. Are we willing to neglect the most valuable part of us at such a cheap price? Is being a Catholic more valuable than the soul? Is the bible more valuable than the soul? Is there anything more valuable than the soul? We know something is wrong with traditional Christianity because of the violence and warfare that has surrounded it throughout its history. Is it more likely that these are the results of God or the results of the enemy? Traditional Christianity doesn't feel totally right. We know there is some truth there but it is not clear. People instinctively know that something is missing. What is this something that's missing?

One cannot outwit the soul because it is one with infinite intelligence. It peers right through the personality and watches as it tries to hang on to the scriptures as a shield to hide behind its lack of self-worth. The soul doesn't lift a finger yet it is all-powerful because it is one with God. This is not found in the scriptures because most men have decided to reject the soul and therefore have rejected God in the process. Do we think the enemy is going to advertise these punches? No, it will keep this a secret as it has kept humanity in the dark for centuries. Add the shining light of the soul to traditional Christianity and viola, we can see that it makes much more sense. The personality cannot hide forever. It thrives on being undetectable and it is too proud to admit it has done anything wrong by rejecting the soul. That would mean shame and guilt and no one wants to deal with it. It's much easier and more convenient to come up with some sort of belief to sweep the shame and guilt the under the rug instead. It will hang on to its beliefs even though it is causing much pain and turmoil for humanity. It doesn't know any better.

Where do you get the idea from that a person's soul has any value whatsoever, in the first place...?


:cigar: