Creation vs. Evolution

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alwight

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That shows good thinking, not. So after all is said and done you admit science can only work/deal with what it holds its hand; what can only be supported by laboratory tests of what already exists with no knowledge of how it came into being. Interesting you keep denying that part. .
This isn't about me admitting to anything I'm simply explaining to you what a particular word means. "Evolution", by definition, cannot be applied to an original, the word means adaptation over time, so it cannot be about how the original life came about, it concerns what happened after life did come about in terms of the actual material evidence, not a presupposition of something currently unknown.
 

alwight

New member
Nope.... Chemical evolution is still evolution.
G.A. Kerkut, evolutionary physiologist said that evolution is founded upon the belief in life from non-life. “The first assumption is that non-living things gave rise to living material, i.e., spontaneous generation occurred”

Alwight... Its not hard to find many evolutionists who consider stellar evolution, then chemical evolution, then biological evolution, all as part of "evolution". For example you can find articles with titles such as “Cosmic Evolution: From Big Bang to Humankind”
Nonsense, see above.
 

alwight

New member
I suppose we find it equally fascinating that that evolutionists often are closet believers in life from non life. Come out of the closet Jose..... don't be shy. I don't know what you really believe but atheistic evolutionists have no choice other than believe life from non life
So what? Of course life must have come from non-life at some point, who has suggested otherwise? :liberals:
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear Caino,

I don't agree with everything you say, although we are more than sometimes on the same page. What you posted earlier about "Michael fought, and his angels, and the dragon (Satan) fought, and his angels, and neither was there found a place for them no more, and they were cast out into the Earth..." That Michael referred to is me...

Rev. 12:1KJV, "and upon her head, a crown of twelve stars." That refers to my mother who had all twelve tribes of Israel through intermingling in the Middle East, Europe and then to North America. First, the ten tribes of Israel having the blood of Judah and Benjamin, coursing through their veins, and who knows what other tribes. And they filtered into the Middle East, Turkey, throughout Europe, and eventually to North America, so also Cherokee Indians. Sexual urges defy borders, trust me! And Cherokee Indian too. And on my Dad's side, all Lebanese {Arabic} blood. Can you handle all of this? I was supposed to be named Mohamed after my Dad's father, but my Mom insisted that it be the English version of it, therefore Michael. Dad said okay. He was not going to lose his marriage over what his son was called. And my Mom also said that us kids shall go to a Christian church, instead of a mosque {my Dad was Islamic until the last 10 years of his life}. Every time Dad's relatives pulled up into our driveway, we all had to make a mad dash to hide the Bibles and church bulletins and pamphlets out of sight. And of course, my aunts and grandmother never called beforehand when they were coming over. So my Mom had all 12 tribes of Israel, English, Irish, Scottish, and Cherokee in her, and with her children, the children all had Arab in them also. You have no idea how rare this was back in 1955.

In Rev. 12:6KJV, it explains a place of refuge given to her for 3½ years, which was the Nazarene Church that she felt close to and where she took us kids every Sunday, and it gave her comfort being married to a Muslim and his family. So she had an escape. And I used to play organ and piano in church, and also sing in the choir and doing solos, and also appear in the religious plays that us 12 year old's do.

And Rev. 12:3KJV, it explains the devil/Satan and his angels being cast down to the Earth {for they were at war in Heaven, but became defeated, and cast out of Heaven}. And this red dragon had seven heads and ten horns, this regarding the kings/sins he had working for him, such as Stealing, Lying, Murder, etc. These sins commanded over some people and that is why they are called kings. There were crowns upon these heads because these sins had all successfully misled people on Earth. Tens horns means that 3 new sins would be added to Satan's cache, to put it simply enough. BTW, I almost died when I was 4 years old from asthma, I was turning blue, and finally my Mom and Dad had to take me to the hospital and they fixed me up with an adenoid operation. I'm not going to explain everything in my life to you all. It's been interesting and awesome, but this is getting long.

And heaven rejoiced when Satan was cast out of Heaven, and the devil used to accuse those in Heaven to God and to each other all manners of lies and accusations imaginable, to cause rifts between and bad thoughts about each. He tried, but the angels overcame it. And when Satan realized he was cast into the Earth, he was rattled with my Mom and me, and our family, except my Dad. For a time, my Mom decided to drink beer to ease her anxiety and stress from the devil always making havoc with her life and then us kids having to deal with Satan also, because he is frantic, knowing that his time for trying to beat God is about spent. Anyway, my Mom could not hold her liquor. She was such an innocent being, but she started to drink more than 4 beers or more, even finally, I might venture a 6 or 8 pack in one night. She got unruly and wasn't pleasant to be around then, because she got angry and drunk, and would not listen to us kids telling her that she had a problem.

But after seeing some TV shows, etc., she saw that she had the same problem as the person on the TV screen, etc. and so she did some soul-searching and finally overcame it. It took about 2 to 3 years, or so. I didn't time it. Anyway, in Rev. 12:16KJV, that the Earth swallowed up the flood (of alcohol) which the dragon cast out of his mouth, my Mom overcame the alcohol problem and it was no more. She was back to her sweet self once again and she died at age 61. It was a great loss. Ripped part of my heart right out! I could go in further detail if you want, but the devil starting trying to torment us kids by causing misunderstandings, and us feeling guilty because of our shortcomings or sins. Well, we overcame it by the fact that God and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, they love us all, to death and beyond, and we will carry our crosses to our graves and beyond.

I guess that is another thing I explicitly want to tell you all here. Regardless, for those who love God and Jesus dearly, and those who believe without seeing, keep your faith, and by NO MEANS leave God or Jesus, and they will NEVER LEAVE YOU!! Just wait a day or more and you will find out that you are okay after all. Never give up your birthright given to you by Him. God and Jesus will NOT leave you, even if you are in hell for 3½ days. Keep the faith. Don't believe it if Satan tells you that God has given up on you or forsaken you. Let your love for Him and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, be undying, for that is how you will make it, for each of you will be tested and tried, and refined as silver, to make you acceptable to enter Heaven and beyond that ... the New Jerusalem, which is not of this Earth, but a place prepared for us for later. OK, I need to get to bed. It is 4:30 a.m. here. It's taken me this long to explain the chapter to you and there is still more that I could say. Each secret takes pages to explain, but takes less time to say it symbolically, or in a parable. Okay, sleep tight. There is TONS of other things that have been explained/made known to me. It has been over 40 years of being a student. In a bit!!

Tons Of Love From God and Me,

Michael
 
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Caino

BANNED
Banned
Dear Caino,

I don't agree with everything you say, although we are more than sometimes on the same page. What you posted earlier about "Michael fought, and his angels, and the dragon (Satan) fought, and his angels, and neither was there found a place for them no more, and they were cast out into the Earth..." That Michael referred to is me...

Rev. 12:1KJV, "and upon her head, a crown of twelve stars." That refers to my mother who had all twelve tribes of Israel through intermingling in the Middle East, Europe and then to North America. First, the ten tribes of Israel having the blood of Judah and Benjamin, coursing through their veins, and who knows what other tribes. And they filtered into the Middle East, Turkey, throughout Europe, and eventually to North America, so also Cherokee Indians. Sexual urges defy borders, trust me! And Cherokee Indian too. And on my Dad's side, all Lebanese {Arabic} blood. Can you handle all of this? I was supposed to be named Mohamed after my Dad's father, but my Mom insisted that it be the English version of it, therefore Michael. Dad said okay. He was not going to lose his marriage over what his son was called. And my Mom also said that us kids shall go to a Christian church, instead of a mosque {my Dad was Islamic until the last 10 years of his life}. Every time Dad's relatives pulled up into our driveway, we all had to make a mad dash to hide the Bibles and church bulletins and pamphlets out of sight. And of course, my aunts and grandmother never called beforehand when they were coming over. So my Mom had all 12 tribes of Israel, English, Irish, Scottish, and Cherokee in her, and with her children, the children all had Arab in them also. You have no idea how rare this was back in 1955.

In Rev. 12:6KJV, it explains a place of refuge given to her for 3½ years, which was the Nazarene Church that she felt close to and where she took us kids every Sunday, and it gave her comfort being married to a Muslim and his family. So she had an escape. And I used to play organ and piano in church, and also sing in the choir and doing solos, and also appear in the religious plays that us 12 year old's do.

And Rev. 12:3KJV, it explains the devil/Satan and his angels being cast down to the Earth {for they were at war in Heaven, but became defeated, and cast out of Heaven}. And this red dragon had seven heads and ten horns, this regarding the kings/sins he had working for him, such as Stealing, Lying, Murder, etc. These sins commanded over some people and that is why they are called kings. There were crowns upon these heads because these sins had all successfully misled people on Earth. Tens horns means that 3 new sins would be added to Satan's cache, to put it simply enough. BTW, I almost died when I was 4 years old from asthma, I was turning blue, and finally my Mom and Dad had to take me to the hospital and they fixed me up with an adenoid operation. I'm not going to explain everything in my life to you all. It's been interesting and awesome, but this is getting long.

And heaven rejoiced when Satan was cast out of Heaven, and the devil used to accuse those in Heaven to God and to each other all manners of lies and accusations imaginable, to cause rifts between and bad thoughts about each. He tried, but the angels overcame it. And when Satan realized he was cast into the Earth, he was rattled with my Mom and me, and our family, except my Dad. For a time, my Mom decided to drink beer to ease her anxiety and stress from the devil always making havoc with her life and then us kids having to deal with Satan also, because he is frantic, knowing that his time for trying to beat God is about spent. Anyway, my Mom could not hold her liquor. She was such an innocent being, but she started to drink more than 4 beers or more, even finally, I might venture a 6 or 8 pack in one night. She got unruly and wasn't pleasant to be around then, because she got angry and drunk, and would not listen to us kids telling her that she had a problem.

But after seeing some TV shows, etc., she saw that she had the same problem as the person on the TV screen, etc. and so she did some soul-searching and finally overcame it. It took about 2 to 3 years, or so. I didn't time it. Anyway, in Rev. 12:16KJV, that the Earth swallowed up the flood (of alcohol) which the dragon cast out of his mouth, my Mom overcame the alcohol problem and it was no more. She was back to her sweet self once again and she died at age 61. It was a great loss. Ripped part of my heart right out! I could go in further detail if you want, but the devil starting trying to torment us kids by causing misunderstandings, and us feeling guilty because of our shortcomings or sins. Well, we overcame it by the fact that God and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, they love us all, to death and beyond, and we will carry our crosses to our graves and beyond.

I guess that is another thing I explicitly want to tell you all here. Regardless, for those who love God and Jesus dearly, and those who believe without seeing, keep your faith, and by NO MEANS leave God or Jesus, and they will NEVER LEAVE YOU!! Just wait a day or more and you will find out that you are okay after all. Never give up your birthright given to you by Him. God and Jesus will NOT leave you, even if you are in hell for 3½ days. Keep the faith. Don't believe it if Satan tells you that God has given up on you or forsaken you. Let your love for Him and Jesus, and the Holy Ghost, be undying, for that is how you will make it, for each of you will be tested and tried, and refined as silver, to make you acceptable to enter Heaven and beyond that ... the New Jerusalem, which is not of this Earth, but a place prepared for us for later. OK, I need to get to bed. It is 4:30 a.m. here. It's taken me this long to explain the chapter to you and there is still more that I could say. Each secret takes pages to explain, but takes less time to say it symbolically, or in a parable. Okay, sleep tight. There is TONS of other things that have been explained/made known to me. It has been over 40 years of being a student. In a bit!!

Tons Of Love From God and Me,

Michael

You are the Michael of Johns vision?
 

Jose Fly

New member
I suppose we find it equally fascinating that that evolutionists often are closet believers in life from non life. Come out of the closet Jose..... don't be shy. I don't know what you really believe but atheistic evolutionists have no choice other than believe life from non life

???????? What are you talking about? Of course my view is that life emerged from non-life. We know for a fact that at one point the earth had no life, and later it did, thus "life from non-life" is kinda necessary.

As to how it happened.....don't know.
 

Cross Reference

New member
???????? What are you talking about? Of course my view is that life emerged from non-life. We know for a fact that at one point the earth had no life, and later it did, thus "life from non-life" is kinda necessary.

As to how it happened.....don't know.

What we do know is that evolution is not answer to the "how of it all", in actuality, not the answer to anything that can advance itself. . . . therefore. . .
 

Cross Reference

New member
I've seen this sort of thing from creationists quite a bit over the years, and it always fascinates me. It goes something like...

Science advocate: Evolutionary theory doesn't seek to explain how the first life on earth came to be, rather it explains how life evolves both in the present and in the past.

Creationist: So you admit scientists don't care about/aren't looking into/can't study the origins of life! Figures!!​

The problem here is obvious; the creationist is confusing "origins isn't included in evolutionary theory" with "scientists aren't studying origins", as if whatever lies outside of evolutionary theory also lies outside of science.

I find it fascinating because I see it from creationists so regularly and it always makes me wonder...do they really not understand, or are they so desperate to score points in the debate that they'll grasp at anything, no matter how ridiculous it makes them look?

:popcorn:

Lets "grasp" at this: Evolutionists declare birds evolved for reptiles-snakes. Can you support that 'fact', their findings?
 

Jose Fly

New member
Lets "grasp" at this: Evolutionists declare birds evolved for reptiles-snakes. Can you support that 'fact', their findings?

All right then...if birds evolved from reptilian ancestors, what sort of fossil specimens do you think we should expect to find?

What point?

That creationists can't seem to understand that "origins of life aren't covered by evolutionary theory" doesn't mean "scientists aren't studying origins of life".
 

Cross Reference

New member
All right then...if birds evolved from reptilian ancestors, what sort of fossil specimens do you think we should expect to find?

Snakes with feathers on them, maybe? How 'bout birds with scales and no feet?

That creationists can't seem to understand that "origins of life aren't covered by evolutionary theory" doesn't mean "scientists aren't studying origins of life".

Them why present you evolution theories as fact when creation disproves your psuedo science.
 

Jose Fly

New member
Snakes with feathers on them, maybe? How 'bout birds with scales and no feet?

Well that wouldn't make sense, given that no one is saying birds are descended from snakes.

Have you not ever looked into this subject?

Them why present you evolution theories as fact

Evolution is a fact...we see it happen all the time, right in front of us. We see evolutionary mechanisms produce new traits, genetic sequences, and even species. We even manipulate evolution to our own ends (e.g., domestication of animals).

The theory of evolution serves as an explanation of how evolution occurs, such as its mechanisms and pathways.

when creation disproves your psuedo science.

How so?
 

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
You are applying Shannon's Noisy Channel Theory outside its area of applicability, since you insist on treating limiting assumptions as truths by definition, thereby destroying any argument you thought you had. If you were one of my students applying the Shannon's excellent theory so carelessly, you'd fail my course.
Shannon's Noisy Channel Theory applies to all messages. That's why Shannon uses examples of spoken and written messages. If you think otherwise, it is up to you to show Shannon's claim to be false.

It would be expected that you would fail me because you can't stop the truth, but you can shut people up. And we see you are one of those people because you don't explain your contradiction, you just bully people with your assumed position of authority.

Still, the contradiction remains:
I have never claimed noise works better
except...
It is those rare ones that make the organism function better

And why deny Shannon? Because... because... common descent just has to be true:
mutations work because without them there is no substantive evolution.
!
 

6days

New member
JoseFly said:
What are you talking about? Of course my view is that life emerged from non-life. We know for a fact that at one point the earth had no life, and later it did, thus "life from non-life" is kinda necessary.
That is what most atheists believe even though science tells us life comes from life. God's Word also tells us that life came from "Life". John 14:6
 

Yorzhik

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
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Within individual cells your distinction is meaning less. Evolution does not occure in an individual. Once the individual is born, their genetic code is set. Any mutations in that code tend to be expressed as cancer. Evolution is seen in the progeny so the mutations that matter are the ones that occur in gametes, the sperm and the eggs. These only have half the required genetic code so mutations occur when sperm and egg combine. Mutations also occur as the gametes are formed.
When you are ready to discuss the topic at hand - Shannon and the information in DNA - let us know.

You are arguing against how DNA functions with in a cell and trying to use that to argue against evolution of a species. Your argument is wrong.
The argument is exactly right. Get up to speed about Shannon and information.

This is a meaningless rabbit hole.
It's the heart of the matter. That you see it as meaningless is a testament to your ignorance. Notice, I'm not calling you stupid, but perhaps you've missed the reason why Shannon matters.
 
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