Creation vs. Evolution

[alwight]

Originally Posted by Stuu View Post
All I can think is to be grateful not to believe in such a nasty, hateful, fearful demon-haunted fantasy world of the mind.

That's not an argument. It's a public sneer that is about as pointless as someone from the more hostile wing of the evangelical brethren posting that Stuu is a damned fool. Stuu knows where he is and what he's about. He makes a point of violating his agreement to differ within the rules with regularity. It strikes me as a bit childish and without much merit.

When Delmar was a Mod he pointed out iirc that he wouldn't have had much problem with something like this provided it had clearly been phrased as a personal opinion and not presented as an accepted fact.
I'm sure Stuu is clever enough to rephrase it differently but for some reason doesn't seem to want to which is a shame imo.
Would you like me to rephrase that councillor?

 

[Town Heretic]

When Delmar was a Mod he pointed out iirc that he wouldn't have had much problem with something like this provided it had clearly been phrased as a personal opinion and not presented as an accepted fact.

Delmar is a good egg, but I don't really care about the distinction as much as I do the point. So I differ with Delmar and I'd have discouraged that method of approach once or twice then have been done with the trollish nature of repeat offenses.

I'm sure Stuu is clever enough to rephrase it differently but for some reason doesn't seem to want to which is a shame imo.

I believe he has the intelligence to do it, but I don't think his credendum will allow for it.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Nature

Nature

Yup, sure does.

In the southern hemisphere massive bodies of air circulate opposite to what they do in the northern hemisphere, but don’t count on bathtub drains consistently doing that.

For most weather, why add a bunch of hocus-pocus when we know why it acts the way it does?

Only partially true. When water is cooling, and gets to within a few degrees of freezing, then it actually expands and rises, not sinks.

Dear DavisBJ,

Why do you say Nature wherever I say God? Because you don't believe in God, that's why. There is no Mother Nature. It's God doing all of those things.

I do agree with the last sentence in your post that you wrote. I think it expands when it goes to freeze. That's why it cracks plastic buckets.

Oh well, you are doing your best. I'm glad for that, Davis!! I wish the best for you!!

Warmest Regards,

Michael

:cloud9: :cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :rapture:

 

[freelight]

freelight style......

freelight style......

~*~*~

freelight's portal post on evolution/creation here

~*~*~

Remember,....Life is an energy-consciousness-matrix....whose intrinsic nature and potential is 'creative', hence this energy/consciousness whenever 'relating' (associatively) or in 'movement' (any kind of 'inter-action) evolves, adapts, creates, innovates.

Creation/evolution are the same thing essentially, just different nuances associated with the terms, but its still just Life inter-acting within different dimensions of space-time. This is all that is going on, and you (consciousness) reading these words are proof of that, as you 'process' these very word-symbols.

All there is, as far as you know, perceive and experience....is consciousness. Such is the only medium or matrix by which you know anything, however distorted or accurate that knowledge is. Anything subject to change is conditional.

 

[Interplanner]

I listened to the Ross vs Lyell debate tonight on NRB TV (Direct 378). I'm inclined to go with Ross about the distant universe, but Lyell's short span answers were convincing about those things which should look or act different if they really were millions of years old (moon recession, magnetic field strengths, blue stars, Jovian planet core heat dissipation, comet burnout); all well thought out. But Ross was also convincing about the several polar ice cores taken of earth's annual tilts putting them at some 800K, although when he finished that segment he said that "these indications together mean you can't date it less than 100K." (I didn't follow that).

Ross was weak on answering the things Lyell said would look or act different if actually millions old. It may have been a time factor; he only gave one sentence on each. Some of his examples on the length of Gen 1's days were a bit of a strain, but he did have two solid quotes from Sir Isaac Newton saying that the days were not our usual days.

 

[everready]

I have to say no more, since Davis beat me to the chase.

It's clear that you prefer to attribute everything that happens to your god, whereas secularists prefer to learn more about nature instead.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon...

But tell me: why was Stu banned? Is there something I should be aware of lest I meet the same fate?

And he's right nothing happens without God.

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.


everready

 

[MichaelCadry]

Nature

Nature

Yup, sure does.

Nope, sure doesn't!

In the southern hemisphere massive bodies of air circulate opposite to what they do in the northern hemisphere, but don’t count on bathtub drains consistently doing that.

For most weather, why add a bunch of hocus-pocus when we know why it acts the way it does?

Only partially true. When water is cooling, and gets to within a few degrees of freezing, then it actually expands and rises, not sinks.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I have to say no more, since Davis beat me to the chase.

It's clear that you prefer to attribute everything that happens to your god, whereas secularists prefer to learn more about nature instead.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon...

But tell me: why was Stu banned? Is there something I should be aware of lest I meet the same fate?

Dear TheDuke,

I believe it was because he intentionally blasphemed the Holy Ghost a number of times. On this thread, that is grounds for banning, evidently. I figure you don't understand who the Holy Ghost is, but Jesus said "He who blasphemes the Holy Ghost shall not forgiven, not in this life, nor the life to come." {See Matt. 12:31,32 KJV}.

Michael
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

Admin reserve the right to ban who they wish and they really don't like Stu. He isn't ill mannered or anything, just smart and makes them feel uncomfortable I guess. Shame really cause he certainly livens things up when he's here

Dear Hedshaker,

Yes, I miss him already. He used to always post at my thread here. I just found out he got banned because I looked at that box on the Home page. It is regrettable because he doesn't even know who the Holy Ghost is, but he should still be a little more caring and responsible. He's supposed to be smart, but you have to be wise too.

Is it 9am where you are Hedshaker? Or 7pm?

Cheerio, Mate!!

Michael

 

[TheDuke]

And he's right nothing happens without God.

everready

Dear DavisBJ,

Why do you say Nature wherever I say God? Because you don't believe in God, that's why. There is no Mother Nature. It's God doing all of those things.

Michael

Yes guys, this is precisely where we differ.
For you everything in nature must somehow be devine, whereas for us it just is what it is.

I don't want to start an argument about the existence of deities, however the matter of a constant and permanent devine interaction with nature can be addressed.

So far I was not given a single piece of evidence to support this view that nature cannot do what it does on its own.

 

[6days]

So far I was not given a single piece of evidence to support this view that nature cannot do what it does on its own.

Col. 1:17 He (Jesus) existed before anything else, and he holds all creation together.

 

[Interplanner]

Lewis spoke of natural miracles vs supernatural ones. In the natural category was the ongoing preservation by God to which we have become so accustomed that we think of it as a power of nature itself. But just the precision of them alone (see Gonzalez and Richards) are enough to question that.

Supernatural ones are when the natural ones are abridged, quickened, shortened.

He said that modern naturalism attacks both things about the Bible, not just the unpredictable supernatural ones.

This is why the opening minutes of CREATION (BBC) the bio-pic about Darwin are so critical and carefully made. At the beginning of research Darwin was merely fascinated to be able to express the processes more scientifically, but they were God's. Huxley seized on them as refutations of the existence of God because they would and should run the world on their own. Then he made Darwin his emotional hostage until he agreed to publish ORIGINS, even though God was the only hope Darwin had about the loss of his 10 yr old daughter, about which Huxley could care less.

 

[Interplanner]

Seattle creation conference starts tomorrow night, PST. There is webcam access at the registration page.

http://conference.nwcreation.net/

 

[MichaelCadry]

Admin reserve the right to ban who they wish and they really don't like Stu. He isn't ill mannered or anything, just smart and makes them feel uncomfortable I guess. Shame really cause he certainly livens things up when he's here

Hey Hedshaker,

I mentioned why Stuart was banned in another post. It's good to hear from you again!! How is the weather in England these days?? Has it cooled off at all?? Are the leaves changing colors yet? Here in Phoenix, AZ, USA, it is still hot. I believe 103 degrees today. It's going to be near 100 degrees for the next 7 days. Cool, eh? {No, hot!}. LOL! My roommate and I worked on my car today and bled the brakes. They work lots better now. If I have any further problems, it could be the brake booster. I would probably not undertake changing that, but would take it into the auto shop. We'll see. I hope that you are having a marvelous time over there. Wow, the whole ocean surrounds you and the rest of Great Britain. Such good people. Hedshaker, I have English, Irish and Scottish in my blood too, on my mother's side. Plus some more, including Cherokee Indian, Israeli, etc. On my dad's side, I am all Lebanese. But I was raised a Christian instead of a Muslim. Instead of being named Mohamed after my grandfather, my mom made sure that I would be called the English equivalent: Michael. Boy, am I glad. And she told my dad that she was raising us kids as Christians, not Islam. Another thing I am grateful. My dad didn't put up much of a fight because he loved my mom so much, he let her have her way most all of the time. We used to have to race around hiding the Christian Bibles and church pamphlets every time my dad's relatives pulled in the driveway unannounced, which is what they did all of the time. They thought we are Muslims under I was around 16. Then we told them that we were Christians. They took it well, I guess. It was rough on my mother for a while. Her sisters-in-law {my aunts} were snubbing and snooty for a while. Mom didn't like it, but never said anything to them. But she told my dad and us kids overheard her, of course. Well, this is too lengthy. I'm sorry. Chat with you soon!!

Cheerio!!

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :cloud9: :guitar: :singer: :angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

[2 days until Seattle Creation Conference. http://conference.nwcreation.net/ There is webcam access]

Dr. P. Nelson, Ph.D., presented at a creation conference sponsored by Discovery Institute at Westminster, PA. It was replayed yesterday on NRB TV (Direct 378).

The topic was the undercutting of biological evolution by the destructivity of mutations. The sample species was the primitive C. eleganta, a fruit fly. The two reasons were 1, that mutations for changes were systematically stopped by killing the individual. 2, unlike humans, C. Eleganta reproduces only when very mature, almost at the end of life. Ie, there is not even a chance for mutations to start across what he termed 'the bridge of life' where the moment of reproduction is at the far end, not the near end.

The presentation closes with peer quotes by T. MacDonald 1983 saying biological evolution fails, and a more recent one by ____ that biological evolution is unsolveable. Both peers were tenured professors in their fields.

Dear Interplanner,

Are you saying that we have proof that biological evolution can't be? In other words, evolution is false? That would be quite a discovery!! Poor fruit fly!! Thanks for your input here. I gave you some good rep pts.

God's Very Best For You!

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

I'd have perma banned him a long time ago and I'm not particularly noted for an inability to meet the anti-theist amiably in rational difference and discourse.

But looking at the typical Stuu approach, evidenced in the vehicle for his latest ban...

That's not an argument. It's a public sneer that is about as pointless as someone from the more hostile wing of the evangelical brethren posting that Stuu is a damned fool. Stuu knows where he is and what he's about. He makes a point of violating his agreement to differ within the rules with regularity. It strikes me as a bit childish and without much merit.

Some of the most accomplished intellectuals of nearly any day have stood among the faithful and addressed issues of their faith with articulate and moving reason. If Stuu hasn't sufficiently versed himself to understand that then he's unpardonably lazy. If he has and he means to simply pick an example of someone he feels comfortable ridiculing for lacking acumen, then he's worse than lazy and he has his reward.

Dear Town Heretic,

Stuu blasphemed the Holy Ghost twice, intentionally. I told him he was still loved and forgivable by God and Jesus, as long as he didn't blaspheme the Holy Ghost. Well, he did it in his next post to me--twice and purposely, intentionally. I know he doesn't know enough about the gravity of the situation and has no idea who the Holy Ghost even is. One of the mods must have read his post. If the Holy Ghost forgives him, Stuart, then so will I. Now you know!!

It's good to have you here, brethren.

Praise The Lord God!!!

Michael
​

 

[patrick jane]

Dear Town Heretic,

Stuu blasphemed the Holy Ghost twice, intentionally. I told him he was still loved and forgivable by God and Jesus, as long as he didn't blaspheme the Holy Ghost. Well, he did it in his next post to me--twice and purposely, intentionally. I know he doesn't know enough about the gravity of the situation and has no idea who the Holy Ghost even is. One of the mods must have read his post. If the Holy Ghost forgives him, Stuart, then so will I. Now you know!!

It's good to have you here, brethren.

Praise The Lord God!!!

Michael
​

but how will you know if he is forgiven ?

 

[MichaelCadry]

that's what the masses want - :chuckle:

Dear patrick jane,

Hey handsome!! My twin brother!! Don't change your avatar ever again. You have one that works!! I'm sure Eeset and Rusha love it. I love it 'cause it's like me looking into a mirror about 20 years ago. I think that Stuart did not know any better, and I forgive him. I can't help myself. But it's not in my hands. It's up to God and Jesus!! Stuart's not too bright sometimes. He's rogue, I think.

Praise God!!

Michael
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

I listened to the Ross vs Lyell debate tonight on NRB TV (Direct 378). I'm inclined to go with Ross about the distant universe, but Lyell's short span answers were convincing about those things which should look or act different if they really were millions of years old (moon recession, magnetic field strengths, blue stars, Jovian planet core heat dissipation, comet burnout); all well thought out. But Ross was also convincing about the several polar ice cores taken of earth's annual tilts putting them at some 800K, although when he finished that segment he said that "these indications together mean you can't date it less than 100K." (I didn't follow that).

Ross was weak on answering the things Lyell said would look or act different if actually millions old. It may have been a time factor; he only gave one sentence on each. Some of his examples on the length of Gen 1's days were a bit of a strain, but he did have two solid quotes from Sir Isaac Newton saying that the days were not our usual days.

Dear Interplanner,

You listen to Ross and Lyell a lot, eh? What is the result of this 'debate.' I doubt that this Earth could be a million years old. Do you realize how LONG that is??!! That's A LOT OF YEARS. And a year has 365 days in it, to say the least!! And God said He created the Earth in the same week as He did man and woman, and the sea, and the animals and fish. So do you think all of these things are a million years old??? If you do, you do not believe the Bible, nor the word of God as recorded by Moses. I'm sure God directed Moses to write the first five books of the Bible. It had to be someone who knew God well enough to hear His voice and record what He would want. John of Patmos did an excellent job recording what Jesus said in Revelation! Talk about difficult. And Daniel, heck, a bit of that I don't understand either!! Thanks for your post here!!

May God Grace A Visit To Your Heart!!

Michael
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

And he's right nothing happens without God.

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.


everready

Dear everready,

You hit the nail on the head. You are my type of people. It is a wonderful message that you have posted. But we get trampled on all of the time, those of us who believe in God and that NOTHING that has been made exists without His doing, nor his nurturing every day as He takes care of so very many things, even splitting atoms. Be sure to post again soon. Will be looking for it!!

May Jesus Grab Your Hand To Pull You Up When You Meet Him!!

Michael
​