Creation vs. Evolution

[TheDuke]

The banana that Michael was pointing at me...

...it's not loaded.

Stuart

But it's coated with peanut butter.... so beware!

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear TheDuke,

I am too riled up by your last post that I cannot go on 2nite. I will check out all of your other posts in the afternoon 2morrow. I've sorry, but it is past 2am here, and I'm going to have some ice cream and go to bed. I hope that's okay!

Much Love And God's Forgiveness From Him And Each Of Us!!

Michael

 

[TheDuke]

No gods, no problem. With that out of the way, we can get on to what is really important in life.

Yeah, that's what I call freedom of religion

I know. As Christopher Hitchens put it, if you want to escape North Korea at least you can die! That option isn't available with the nightmare dystopia of christianity.

Personally I'm not a fan of Hitchens' but what he said is very true, however I doubt that our theist friends can comprehend this nuance

 

[TheDuke]

Dear TheDuke,

I am too riled up by your last post that I cannot go on 2nite. I will check out all of your other posts in the afternoon 2morrow. I've sorry, but it is past 2am here, and I'm going to have some ice cream and go to bed. I hope that's okay!

Much Love And God's Forgiveness From Him And Each Of Us!!

Michael

sure, take your time.
I also don't have the possibility to be onine 24/7

Haven't read your reply just yet (only seen this last notice)
Hope I didn't upset you too much. Feel free to get back at me.

 

[TheDuke]

Dear TheDuke,

Stop there! Yes, God loves all of humanity, but He does not necessarily like their WAYS!! And He has left plenty of evidence behind, but it gets scoffed at, disbelieved, lied about, held in derision!! How about the Dead Sea Scrolls?? How about people who have died and come back alive then? How about tons of miracles, from Jesus and His Followers, even recent Followers!! How about the Shroud of Turin that man finds so difficult to correctly date. Oh, the furor it would cause if it were authentic. I can just imagine what's behind it all!!



What do you mean, "He gives them no reason to? Everyone who has felt love when they were young, seek more and more Love. Well, the Creator and Inventor of LOVE is GOD!! Don't you know?? It remains that most EVERYONE is seeking for HIM. They are seeking for LOVE!! And, He is punishing humanity for seeking and doing the devil's work, and killing, raping, stealing, adultery, lying, extorting, being manipulative, fornication {having from the bar, one or two different girls for sex every weekend, or in your lifetime, period}, being effeminate, etc. Those who finally settle down with a girl and quit continuing in fornication are on the RIGHT Track!!

AND most importantly, it would be so easy for everyone to be saved if only this god would be honest for a change.


Our God is HONEST!!! Name a man who has been Honest all his life??!! Why have you changed colors like this??

Michael

Dear Michael,

Looks like I just hit a nerve there, oops. :whip:

Yeah, your god doesn't really hate our ways, he hates our lack of faith.
Tell me which is more important, what you do in life or whether you believe? Which one gets you into heaven, which one into hell?


Let me talk about 2 issues that arise from our last exchange:

1) Knowledge about what is right

You have the bible and have been raised in a culture and community that perpetuates the rules. Regardless of whether you follow them, how do you consider it fair, that your god judges each and every single human being on this planet, even if the majority of them don't have the rule book nor have been exposed to the philosophy during their youth. - How would you feel if the gov't sentenced you for life for something you were never told is illegal???


2) Evidence for your particular god

Clearly you are convinced! You also seem to be under the impression that there is some sort of conspiracy going on to suppress this valuable evidence. So let us go through it all piece by piece and see where this leads us, if you'd like to...


Take it easy, mate. You make your choices in life and I make mine.
-Duke

 

[DavisBJ]

Intent – good, but specifics are not so good

Intent – good, but specifics are not so good

… very much like the drain in your tub, watch the water twirl reliably in the same direction and how it does so in the opposite direction on the other hemisphere...

Cheers, Duke

Coriolis effects on fluid flows as small as the water draining in a tub are miniscule. I often see the draining water reverse the direction of swirl a couple of times as minor local invisible eddys in the water reach the drain. If you sneeze close to where the tub is draining, the air current from your sneeze will probably affect the direction the draining water swirls as much as the Coriolis effect does.

 

[MichaelCadry]

sure, take your time.
I also don't have the possibility to be onine 24/7

Haven't read your reply just yet (only seen this last notice)
Hope I didn't upset you too much. Feel free to get back at me.

Dear TheDuke,

I see you are agnostic. At least that is definitely a step in the right direction. Will chat more with you later. Can't chat much just yet.

Much Love For You TheDuke!!

Michael

 

[patrick jane]

Dear Stuart,

It is a fact that some people will experience diseases to cause them to pay for what they've done in a previous life.

that's not correct Michael ! God doesn't punish folks for previous lives


They could be Hitler or Mussolini, or a supporter of either one. Also, people have to die somehow, so disease it allowed. Satan gets to cause people disease and God only reverses disease at His Own discretion. The devil has to be allowed some things on Earth, like weeds, which is something God gives him. Why are there weeds, just like why is there cystic fibrosis, cancer, COPD, emphysema, heart attacks, etc. People have to die some way, or the Earth would really be overpopulated. Does all of this answer your questions? Some people just reap what they sow and get their just desserts.

What they've done in a previous life. Man cannot learn everything in just one lifetime. He has to learn through quite a number of reincarnations. We are learning a lot during this generation. The same way that God lets people be atheistic. God doesn't want them this time around. Maybe they will learn better in their next lifetime.

now you're into reincarnation ? past and future lives on earth ? that's urantia-like -


It does say, "And the REST OF THE DEAD did not LIVE AGAIN until the thousand years were finished." See Rev. 20:5 KJV.

You're going to have to learn what you didn't in this lifetime and hope you learn it in the next lifetime. It's basic knowledge.

Michael

c'mon Michael, we need to talk - atrol:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Michael,

Air currents are the result of the combination of the earth's rotation and the pressure gradients in the atmosphere.
BTW very much like the drain in your tub, watch the water twirl reliably in the same direction and how it does so in the opposite direction on the other hemisphere...

I know you are able to answer all my questions because your answer is even much more predictable than the weather - it's always because "god made it so"!

As I've stated before: as long as you cannot use your faith to make any kind of viable predictions - it means that yours is not a sufficient understanding of the subject. I'd rather stick with science on this one

Cheers, Duke

Dear TheDuke,

Who do you think created air currents? Who do you think guides them with His great knowledge? Who do you think made the Earth rotate or the pressure gradients in the atmosphere, or even the atmosphere. It is God. You think it just comes of it's own accord?? Yes, I know our drain water swirls the opposite in the southern hemisphere. If you want to stick with science, that's totally up to you. I'm sure that God will note that in His book. Since you don't believe in Him or His capabilities. You can't leave God out of the world, because without Him, the world would not be. But to expound, the cold air/water sinks to the bottom and the warm air/water rises to the top, and that causes the pressures and movements.

Much Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael

​

 

[patrick jane]

Dear Michael,

Air currents are the result of the combination of the earth's rotation and the pressure gradients in the atmosphere.
BTW very much like the drain in your tub, watch the water twirl reliably in the same direction and how it does so in the opposite direction on the other hemisphere...

I know you are able to answer all my questions because your answer is even much more predictable than the weather - it's always because "god made it so"!

As I've stated before: as long as you cannot use your faith to make any kind of viable predictions - it means that yours is not a sufficient understanding of the subject. I'd rather stick with science on this one

Cheers, Duke

Hebrews 11:1 KJV and 3,

Ephesians 1:4 KJV and 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14

 

[MichaelCadry]

c'mon Michael, we need to talk - atrol:

Dear Patrick,

OK! Talk! Don't you think that the offspring of someone who has done something wrong, doesn't suffer from it. Say Bill Cosby. And maybe those with kids or not. I don't know who has kids. But say Charles Manson, or Hitler, or Jim Jones-the Kool Aid monster, or Or Whitney Houston, whose daughter died. You know what I mean. I wish I could come up with more instances, but you get my idea, I think. Those relatives who outlive a criminal suffer a lot. I can't go into more now. I have to be in bed in a half hour. Chat with you more later.

Praise God!!

Michael

:cloud9: :cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel: :rapture:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hey Michael,

Everyone can get emotional at some point and you don't have to justify your outburst (especially since this is a christian forum - your home turf)
I was hoping that you would address the underlying reasons for your feelings and how that differs from the perception of non-christians, who lack the concepts of blasphemy or sin.
Also I'm fully aware that the first line in my post was very condescending, couldn't help it, sorry about that.

I was really, really hoping that you would answer my inquiry relating to evolution. Pity that so far you have not

-Duke

Dear Duke,

I'm a busy man. I'm not trying to be curt. Why play games with me? I'm trying, TheDuke!! I'm not someone who knows everything!! Tell me in one or two, or more, sentences what your inquiry is relating to evolution. Sound good?

Michael
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Michael,

I find this quite outrageous!

Do you not know what biological evolution is and what it is not?

As interesting as these details of ancient religions about the origin of some animals may be, this has absolutely nothing to do with the science of evolution.

Just for clarification:

Biological evolution deals with the diversification of living organisms and NOT with their origin.
Statements like "living things emerged by chance from mud" is not just inaccurate, or misleading. That is a grotesque distortion, so far removed from what evolution actually is, that it's no wonder you don't believe in it.

Come on, seriously: Neither I nor any secular person on the globe makes the claim that living things just "emerge" by "chance" from water/air/dirt/rocks or whatever.

I would strongly recommend you to get a bit acquainted with the actual theoretical framework of evolution before you continue to convince yourself how ridiculous it is by portraying some nonsense.

Cheers.

Dear TheDuke,

Oh, THIS!!

This is just something I copied to give you a bit of insight of what this article says about evolution. I know there's more to it and less to it. No problem. Every article I quote cannot be all alright and all wrong. It was tongue-in-cheek!

But, I do believe that our Lord God formed the animals, birds and man from the dirt/ground. So ride with that however you want to.

God Be With You, Duke!!

Michael
​

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear TheDuke,

Who do you think created air currents?

Nature

Who do you think made the Earth rotate or the pressure gradients in the atmosphere, or even the atmosphere.

Nature

You think it just comes of it's own accord??

Yup, sure does.

Yes, I know our drain water swirls the opposite in the southern hemisphere.

In the southern hemisphere massive bodies of air circulate opposite to what they do in the northern hemisphere, but don’t count on bathtub drains consistently doing that.

If you want to stick with science, that's totally up to you.

For most weather, why add a bunch of hocus-pocus when we know why it acts the way it does?

But to expound, the cold air/water sinks to the bottom and the warm air/water rises to the top, and that causes the pressures and movements.

Only partially true. When water is cooling, and gets to within a few degrees of freezing, then it actually expands and rises, not sinks.

 

[TheDuke]

Coriolis effects on fluid flows as small as the water draining in a tub are miniscule. I often see the draining water reverse the direction of swirl a couple of times as minor local invisible eddys in the water reach the drain. If you sneeze close to where the tub is draining, the air current from your sneeze will probably affect the direction the draining water swirls as much as the Coriolis effect does.

Absolutely correct, the magnitude of the influence of the Coliolis effect is very tiny and can be disturbed very easily, but if you don't touch the water and the vessel has a sufficiently large volume - than you always see the same swirling direction

 

[TheDuke]

Dear TheDuke,

Who do you think created air currents? Who do you think guides them with His great knowledge? Who do you think made the Earth rotate or the pressure gradients in the atmosphere, or even the atmosphere. It is God. You think it just comes of it's own accord?? Yes, I know our drain water swirls the opposite in the southern hemisphere. If you want to stick with science, that's totally up to you. I'm sure that God will note that in His book. Since you don't believe in Him or His capabilities. You can't leave God out of the world, because without Him, the world would not be. But to expound, the cold air/water sinks to the bottom and the warm air/water rises to the top, and that causes the pressures and movements.

Much Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael

​

I have to say no more, since Davis beat me to the chase.

It's clear that you prefer to attribute everything that happens to your god, whereas secularists prefer to learn more about nature instead.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon...

But tell me: why was Stu banned? Is there something I should be aware of lest I meet the same fate?

 

[Hedshaker]

But tell me: why was Stu banned? Is there something I should be aware of lest I meet the same fate?

Admin reserve the right to ban who they wish and they really don't like Stu. He isn't ill mannered or anything, just smart and makes them feel uncomfortable I guess. Shame really cause he certainly livens things up when he's here

 

[Interplanner]

[2 days until Seattle Creation Conference. http://conference.nwcreation.net/ There is webcam access]

Dr. P. Nelson, Ph.D., presented at a creation conference sponsored by Discovery Institute at Westminster, PA. It was replayed yesterday on NRB TV (Direct 378).

The topic was the undercutting of biological evolution by the destructivity of mutations. The sample species was the primitive C. eleganta, a fruit fly. The two reasons were 1, that mutations for changes were systematically stopped by killing the individual. 2, unlike humans, C. Eleganta reproduces only when very mature, almost at the end of life. Ie, there is not even a chance for mutations to start across what he termed 'the bridge of life' where the moment of reproduction is at the far end, not the near end.

The presentation closes with peer quotes by T. MacDonald 1983 saying biological evolution fails, and a more recent one by ____ that biological evolution is unsolveable. Both peers were tenured professors in their fields.

 

[Town Heretic]

Admin reserve the right to ban who they wish and they really don't like Stu. He isn't ill mannered or anything, just smart and makes them feel uncomfortable I guess. Shame really cause he certainly livens things up when he's here

I'd have perma banned him a long time ago and I'm not particularly noted for an inability to meet the anti-theist amiably in rational difference and discourse.

But looking at the typical Stuu approach, evidenced in the vehicle for his latest ban...

All I can think is to be grateful not to believe in such a nasty, hateful, fearful demon-haunted fantasy world of the mind.

That's not an argument. It's a public sneer that is about as pointless as someone from the more hostile wing of the evangelical brethren posting that Stuu is a damned fool. Stuu knows where he is and what he's about. He makes a point of violating his agreement to differ within the rules with regularity. It strikes me as a bit childish and without much merit.

If christianity leads one to this way of thinking then it's just another reason not to join that rather mediocre club.

Some of the most accomplished intellectuals of nearly any day have stood among the faithful and addressed issues of their faith with articulate and moving reason. If Stuu hasn't sufficiently versed himself to understand that then he's unpardonably lazy. If he has and he means to simply pick an example of someone he feels comfortable ridiculing for lacking acumen, then he's worse than lazy and he has his reward.

 

[patrick jane]

It strikes me as a bit childish and without much merit.

he's unpardonably lazy. If he has and he means to simply pick an example of someone he feels comfortable ridiculing for lacking acumen, then he's worse than lazy and he has his reward.

that's what the masses want - :chuckle: