Creation vs. Evolution

Status
Not open for further replies.

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Reincarnation is not, and never has been, the meaning of personal resurrection in the Bible.

It is appointed to man once to die, and after that the judgement. Christ has appeared and suffered to save mankind, and will appear again, not to save but judge. Get your business cleared up ahead of time. That is the sound of the NT Gospel. Hebrews 9:27-28.

God justifies those who believe on what Christ has done for them. He justifies them from their sins in his sight. Romans 3 and 5.

Michael has completely disqualified himself from Biblical theology by using the term reincarnation, and I don't think he's up to speed on relevant science about cosmology.



Dear Interplanner,

How do you think?? Didn't Jesus say, when He Returned, every eye shall see Him, yes THEY ALSO WHO PIERCED/KILLED HIM? How do you think that is accomplished? Also what do you have to say that "And the DEAD shall not LIVE AGAIN until the thousand years were finished?" {See Rev. 20:5KJV}. You might know a lot that's going on, but there are things that you don't. I never said that it wasn't true that "There is an appointed time for a man to die." That is a given. That doesn't mean he wasn't reincarnated from another person. It does not matter to me much, regardless. There are more important questions on the table than that. Like, are you ready if Jesus should come next month, or the month after that? Get your bags together. Go, bring your good friends, too. 'Cause it's getting nearer. Soon it will be with you. Now come and join the living. It's not so far from you. And it's getting near. Soon it will all be true!

Peace Train, Cat Stevens.

Much Love, In Christ!!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9:
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Reincarnation is not, and never has been, the meaning of personal resurrection in the Bible.

I don't believe that reincarnation is or has been, the meaning of personal resurrection, in the Bible.

It is appointed to man once to die, and after that the judgement. Christ has appeared and suffered to save mankind, and will appear again, not to save but judge. Get your business cleared up ahead of time. That is the sound of the NT Gospel. Hebrews 9:27-28.

I've addressed this in my last post about this.

God justifies those who believe on what Christ has done for them. He justifies them from their sins in his sight. Romans 3 and 5.

Michael has completely disqualified himself from Biblical theology by using the term reincarnation, and I don't think he's up to speed on relevant science about cosmology.

I have not disqualified myself from Biblical theology or on relevant science of cosmology. Far be it. I'm still steaming forward.

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Surely a great many ordinary mortal human beings have suffered rather greater and more chronically than Jesus Christ?
Suffering for a few hours hardly qualifies for anything very much if compared to the totality of human suffering.
If mortal human suffering alone cannot earn salvation then what use is that of Jesus Christ?

Dear alwight,

Thanks for being there for me!! I don't know if anyone has suffered more than Jesus. All of his life, He had to suffer. He went 40 days and nights without food in the desert, having to listen to Satan's urgings. No man has ever done that, I don't think. That was just the beginning. He had to fight with the devil every day of His life and He did splendidly. He was also scourged and hung from a cross, yet He had done NOTHING WRONG!! No murder, thefts, anything. And He was held in derision by many people and had to put up with that, besides. No, no man has suffered what Jesus has suffered. Not even comparably.

Surely too that those who are/were born only to suffer and perhaps never to experience an opportunity for a proper life have clearly not then acquired any justifiable reason at all to be judged by anyone, even by gods? :plain:

I think Michael is just as entitled to his own beliefs as you are, neither of you can do any better than mere evidence-free bald assertion.

Thank you Alwight. I am entitled to my own beliefs, just like everyone else. I feel a lot better.

Warmest Regards,

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
i know where ur comin' from alright alwight. lol, but yes, the experience of billions of people is not as good as ours, that's fact. it doesn't seem fair but since creation and sin entering, we are cursed to suffer and toil, i have faith that it all makes sense in the end - :chuckle:



Dear patrick jane,

Hey Buddy!! You're right. Some of us have lived a charmed life, but it all comes out in the wash. Life a beach, sometimes, and then you go on. So many people suffering, and us also. You know that God MUST have His reasons. It's not like He has no brains or heart, or understanding!! You are very right to say that, it all makes sense in the end!!

May God Rain Love Upon Your Heart!! Let It Pour!!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9:

 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
The evidence in this case is the New Testament statements on a person's status upon death. There is no reincarnation in the Bible. Thats why there is reference to people with God now awaiting those who are still living on earth so that all together they enter the new heaven and earth with Christ at the end of time.

{See Rev. 6:11} "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that {they} should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." You see, Interplanner, I know what is going on.

Also, do not say "at the end of time." It won't be at the end of time. It will be the time of a new beginning. Time will never end, so don't say at the end of time. There is tons that you don't know and I'm not going to teach you all of it. You're going to have to learn when you go to Heaven.

The suffering of Christ was not just one person's, even though a crucifixion is horrible. All sin was placed on him and the wrath of God was meted just on him. He volunteered to intercept it for all who believe.

Jesus Christ went through more suffering than any man has or will have to go through. He fasted for 40 days and nights until angels had to come to administer to Him in the desert. He must have been super skinny by then. And He had to fight demons much of His life and casting them out of others. He did much fasting and prayer. He's the Best Man Ever, and He is the Son Of God!!!

Praise The Lord God!!

Michael

{P.S. WHO is giving me all of the neg rep? What'd I do to you? Does anybody know who is doing this? How do I find out?}
 
Last edited:

Stuu

New member
Dear Stuart,

It's your choice Stuu, albeit a definitely preposterous, deadly choice. I know you're not going to heaven this time around. Your probably will go to Hell for a while. God needs to straighten you out. You'll get one more chance during your last lifetime, and you could end up being a atheist again then. That means going to Hell forever. You're being so careless in this lifetime that I think God will give you a long visit to Hell. I don't see any other place for you. But I don't decide or try to judge you. You'll probably get one more chance in 1,000 years from whenever you croak. You are so unintelligible now, that you don't know what decisions you are making. You need a dose of spirit and it looks like God is not giving it to you. If you don't get it this time around this time, you will probably be given a last chance 1000 some years from now. You will probably be a disrespectful atheist again, and you will end up burning in the Sun until it's demise and God will give you one of the other stars in this Universe and burn there also. You will burn forever, is what Revelation says. Oh well, it's your choice, so no one will convince you otherwise. I'm sorry for you Stuu. I can't believe people like you exist. Surprise, surprise, eh??!!

What A Wonderful Lord Jesus!!

Michael
Does your fantasy conspiracy theory really say all that? I wonder where!

Michael, when I die that will be it. I will cease to be alive and my atoms will eventually be recycled. The only way I might live on is in the memories of others. There is no reason whatsoever to believe anything else.

The blasphemy was unnecessary (I admit it!) because none of this lunatic, schizoid, paranoid, totalitarian Mesopotamian man-god conspiracy has a hope of being true.

It's not even very entertaining. Rather unimaginative, actually.

Stuart
 

TheDuke

New member
Your last question is totally irrelevant to this. Very interesting that you would go that direction. Why is that?

The 2nd to last is a bit better because out of the 4 metaphysical possibilities for a prime cause, Christian falls in the category of 'everything came from a personal intelligent creator' (that's metaphysics in the philosphic sense, the same as you found 'closed system of natural cause and effect' to be. 'Closed system...' is more clear than naturalistic uniformitarianism, but is the same).

There is nothing absurd about saying that it is more sense that an infinite being put earth and moon in place than chancing it to a Katrina. I do not accept your meaning of absurdity and you have no corner on that. What is absurd to me is to see people driving cars down the street who actually believe that the 20 areas identified in THE PRIVILEGED PLANET can just happen to harmonize and integrate the first time and every time with their mountains of 00s it takes to express improbability. And those people are driving cars are in the lane opposite me! Crikey!

Speaking of the moon, do you really want anyone to know you said the other planets do nothing for us? that you said it out loud? Nonsense. Look merely at the gravitational range we live in. Gonzalez and Richards put it this way: imagine a tape measure across our galaxy. The level of gravitational pull is at a certain marked inch. A change one inch either direction is disaster. The moon does nothing?

sorry I don't accept your definition of pointless about the painting. It is exactly the declaration of Scripture; the heavens are his handicraft. I did not ask you, however, to accept that analogy while you thought the world was 'a closed system of natural causes and effects.' That would be pointless. I don't accept that it is closed. God acts in it as he wants to communicate what he wants. He does so to communicate how we may be redeemed, not only for eternal life but for grace and virtue in this life. Instead of being the beasts that T. Huxley thought would be so groovy to be.

This world is not just a mass. It was to be a home and there are "parents" so to speak (taking a few steps down the path of the Christian concept of the Trinity). There was love and communication in the Trinity before the foundation of the world, and it was intended to be here and now as well.

If you have trouble with the livability of this world, it is partly because it is distorted; it has been since the human rebellion egged on by Satan. It is not as created originally. But even so, if you read a history of science like THE ULTIMATE RESOURCE you will see many times that gifts of God through science have made the world pretty nice. Also the broader doctrines of Christianity have engendered medicine, improvements for women and servants, etc., that would otherwise not be there.

The last time I looked at an electricity satelite image taken at night, there were few blacked out areas. It has made things very livable. What "on earth" do you mean by vast majority inhabitable?

Going back to the physics barrier to understanding in the first paragraph, I think it is a trick of that kind of naturalism, to make it impossible to consider the activity of God by the shear force and repetition of physics formulas. As Lewis said in "Religion and Science" in GOD IN THE DOCK:

"Modern science has shown there's no such thing" said my scientist friend about the supernatural.
"But don't you see," said I, "That science never could show anything of the sort?"
"Why on earth not?"
"Because science studies Nature. And the question is whether anything besides Nature exists--anything "outside". How could you find that out by studying simply Nature?"

Then Lewis gives the daily-nickel-in-the-drawer analogy. Ie, what if a person plans to put a nickel in his desk drawer each day. On the 3rd day he has 3, etc., infinitum. "Natural laws are like that provided there's no interference... If there was anything outside Nature, and if it interfered--then the events which the scientist expected wouldn't follow. That would be what we (Christians) call a miracle. In one sense, it wouldn't break the laws of Nature, but those laws can't tell you if Someone will interfere. A child might come take a nickel. A thief might come take them all. Someone tired of change clanging around in their pocket might decide to empty their pocket.

His point was, no scientific law will tell you Someone can't interfere with the daily placement of the nickel. You'd have to ask a psychologist or a parent or a detective that question. Not a scientist.



Mate, I've mentioned so many times already that I'm not responding to G&R's book, so you can save your breath quoting from it.

My last question is irrelevant to your topic on the formation of the moon but very relevant to my topic on your dogma. If you don't feel comfortable answering it, you of course don't have to, but dismissing it out of hand is just weak.

"There is nothing absurd about saying that it is more sense that an infinite being put earth and moon in place than chancing it to a Katrina"
There is nothing absurd about claiming devine origin (at least within our context), but there is if you are contesting whatever you mean by "Katrina". When I mentioned absurd arguments in my previous response, it was relating to your statement that you made which was indeed the definition of "argumentum ad absurdum", pity you can't recognise it.

"gifts from god through science" - I almost fell off my chair reading this, thanks for making me laugh at this oximoron quite so hard.

I really don't want to waste time going into a discussion about side topics, do you honestly look at an image of the planet and fail to notice the 80-85% of the surface covered by ocean, desert, mountains and extremely cold places where there are no humans???

I find your anectode about the scientific observation of the supernatural hillarious, since that's precisely the point of why science works.
Yes, the supernatural is unobservable per definition and the ultimate disproof of its existance is technically impossible. The point being is that whenever the supernatural INTERFERES with nature, the effects (i.e. your miracle) become observable and hence scientifically analysable.
Please tell me which phenomena are being observed that fall outside of the laws of nature. Why does your god have to hide so well?
 

alwight

New member
Dear alwight,

Thanks for being there for me!! I don't know if anyone has suffered more than Jesus. All of his life, He had to suffer. He went 40 days and nights without food in the desert, having to listen to Satan's urgings. No man has ever done that, I don't think. That was just the beginning. He had to fight with the devil every day of His life and He did splendidly. He was also scourged and hung from a cross, yet He had done NOTHING WRONG!! No murder, thefts, anything. And He was held in derision by many people and had to put up with that, besides. No, no man has suffered what Jesus has suffered. Not even comparably.
Hi Michael.
I don't buy most of that about Jesus if only because there is no mention of most of his life even if I accept that the Gospels are all true. If he actually was the son of God then I don't think he'd have a great problem dealing with the devil or dealing with mortal pain.
Ordinary mortal humans were routinely crucified by the Romans often taking days to die.
In fact many innocent human beings spend their whole lives suffering through no fault of their own, having no godly powers to heal, sustain or presumably to last a few days without food.

Thank you Alwight. I am entitled to my own beliefs, just like everyone else. I feel a lot better.

Warmest Regards,

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
We are all entitled to our own beliefs, but some blowhards seem to think that their own beliefs are better than anyone else's even though they can offer no better standard evidence.
:)
 

TheDuke

New member

Dear Duke,

No, I don't find it strange that God won't bring another global flood ever again here on Earth. He promised us all that He wouldn't do it. And tornadoes have to be at a certain latitude and longitude on the Earth. Tornadoes happen when cold air meets hot air. So certain nations get them also. We don't get many tornadoes in my neck of the woods because I'm right in the AZ Valley and the mountains don't allow for winds that break up because of them. God also does waterspouts. God also controls the tsunamis. And the Lord directly determines which area gets the tornado{es}. Sure, we can predict hopefully when this and that happens, but we're often wrong. We get near the temp., rain, storms, earthquakes, landslides and they are predictable by the computers they have and certain criteria that the meteorologists/weathermen use. We're wrong about most things, even the temperatures. Weathermen can only guess what the highs and lows will be by putting their info into them, and roughly finding out what their computers have detected, and when wind or rain will come. I live in the desert, so rain is scarce. What will happen is God doing what He will through His angels, and His servants. God controls ALL of IT!!

Peace Be Yours!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9: :cloud9:

Dear Michael,

I never asked for another flood :) just a bit of rain would be enough!
Even in your answer you are slightly contradicting yourself here and there. Just watch:

"tornadoes have to be at a certain latitude and longitude on the Earth. Tornadoes happen when cold air meets hot air"

vs.

"And the Lord directly determines which area gets the tornado{es}"


So which one is it?


Yes, the nature of any prediction is that it is not easy to make, but we have improved to a very big degree, that's a lot more than the absolutely nonexistent predictive power of your faith (sorry about that, don't take it personally) or do theologians possess an insight into weather patterns?

Cheers, Duke
 

TheDuke

New member

Dear Stuart,

It's your choice Stuu, albeit a definitely preposterous, deadly choice. I know you're not going to heaven this time around. Your probably will go to Hell for a while. God needs to straighten you out. You'll get one more chance during your last lifetime, and you could end up being a atheist again then. That means going to Hell forever. You're being so careless in this lifetime that I think God will give you a long visit to Hell. I don't see any other place for you. But I don't decide or try to judge you. You'll probably get one more chance in 1,000 years from whenever you croak. You are so unintelligible now, that you don't know what decisions you are making. You need a dose of spirit and it looks like God is not giving it to you. If you don't get it this time around this time, you will probably be given a last chance 1000 some years from now. You will probably be a disrespectful atheist again, and you will end up burning in the Sun until it's demise and God will give you one of the other stars in this Universe and burn there also. You will burn forever, is what Revelation says. Oh well, it's your choice, so no one will convince you otherwise. I'm sorry for you Stuu. I can't believe people like you exist. Surprise, surprise, eh??!!

What A Wonderful Lord Jesus!!

Michael



I hope you feel better about yourself, after having condemned someone like that.

You do realize that one of the main critiques against Christianity is the fear-mongering about going to hell, is would appear that you have fallen prey to it.

On another note: I'm a bit disappointed that you never replied to my post about your chronic misinterpretation of what evolution is. That's a pity cause that was the original topic of this thread, right?

Cheers.
 

TheDuke

New member

Dear TheDuke,

Thank you for liking it. The reason there are more stars and magnitudes of them is because many of them are the product of God creating the HOST of HEAVEN. He created them as stars in the beginning before He created man. They are the original angels. Those who leave this Earth to become LIKE the Stars, are not original angels. They are children of God. Their work will be to help others on Earth know how to choose between right and wrong, just like the angels do now.

One-third of the people on Earth will die and either go to Hell or go to sleep for a thousand years until they live again (reincarnation). Most will not go to Hell. God is not a sadist. Only the worst will go to Hell. Very few, to be honest. Satan will go there and some with him. The Antichrist and the false prophet, and most likely the 666 other persons who were deceived by the Antichrist will go straight to the Lake of Fire (our Sun). {See Rev. 19:20 KJV}. One third will remain on the Earth {the meek} and rebuild it. They are good people and life on Earth will become BEAUTIFUL Again. No one will have to worry about being hurt by another. You won't need door locks or nothing. The last third of people will go to Heaven, because they are finally ready after many years of being born over and over, and learning enough through all of that to accumulate the knowledge and spiritual countenance to make them ready to go to Heaven. They will be "as the stars (angels) forever and ever." {See Dan. 12:3 KJV}.

Now, in the very end, those on earth and those who are dead shall rise, those who are in Hell and in the sea shall be taken out and judged, each one who is in the Book of Life, and the rest shall be judged by their works. So even people in Hell have a good chance of going to Heaven. Hopefully they will have learned their lesson by then. If they don't, they go to the Lake of Fire. {See Rev. 20:13 KJV}. I'm trying to tell you all I can the best way I know how. Look up these Bible verses and study a bit. Now I will tell you that Hell is in the center of our Earth, where it is hot with lava and magma, and it is the 'bottomless pit' because it has a center, and a top, but no bottom to speak of. Everyone thinks they are on top because of gravity. I hope that you can understand this symbolism. A gate to the center of the Earth is a Volcano hole. The Lake of Fire is filled with brimstone and intense Heat compared to Hell. And I'll tell you this. A lightning bolt is ten times hotter than the Sun. Just to let you know how hot some things are. Hell is a breeze compared to the Lake of Fire (our Sun). Okay, I hope you understand what I'm saying here. Don't blow a fuse trying to understand it. Just go slow and study the Scriptures. I can't answer all of your posts because you see how complex things are that you didn't realize. I need to go get something to eat, like some cheese and crackers. LOL!!

May God Be With You As You Read!!

Michael


Hi Michael,

Many thanks for this exposition of theology and scripture. Please do enjoy your meal, you have definitely earned it.

It's not very difficult to understand, it is difficult to believe!

You see, you are coming from a position of faith and for you those things are real, but I (and pretty much any other atheist) start from the position that first, the mere existence of anything supernatural must be validated, before it makes any sense to delve into details.

Enjoy.
-Duke
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Many thanks, is there a way for me to return the favor?


Dear Duke,

You really don't have to. I am happy with anything that I have. But to tell you how to do it for others, you left click on that blue "REP" button on the upper right of the person's post that you are on. A rectangular box will come up for you to type whatever you'd like to say to him/her, and then you hit your enter button. There you go. It is done.

God Bless You For Asking!!

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear patrick jane,

Do you have any idea who is giving me the red neg. rep. pts? I don't know about you, but I have to wait days in order to give you more good rep. pts. It comes up that I must spread around more pts. before I can give you some more. I'm trying, though.

Tons Of Love From God And Me!!

Michael
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Dear patrick jane,

Do you have any idea who is giving me the red neg. rep. pts? I don't know about you, but I have to wait days in order to give you more good rep. pts. It comes up that I must spread around more pts. before I can give you some more. I'm trying, though.

Tons Of Love From God And Me!!

Michael

no, if somebody neg reps you it gives their name. don't you know how to see ur reps on CP ? anyway, the rep system is set up so when you rep me you have to rep 3 or 4 others before you can rep me again. we all get the same 60 reps in per 24hr day. even if you get negs you still have 60 reps to give each day -
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dearest patrickj,

Well, thank you so much for the info. Now I know what I've been doing wrong. I will have to make an increase on how many good reps that I give to others. I will rep you as often as I can. You have tons already. I only have a bit and a bunch of neg ones. I've never had this many neg reps since I've been here. I really don't give a hoot THAT much, but it looks like someone out there doesn't like me.

God's Best For You Always,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear All,

Do you know I am just beginning page 874 to read each post and comment to them? I'm going to skip ahead to this page here. I will try to go back to page 874 if I get a chance. That means I have to skip pages 874 and 875. It is hard for me to keep up with all of you. Please forgive me if I haven't answered a post from you. I will try to get to it sometime. I will now answer the posts on this page soon. I must go for a while first. Thanks so much, y'all!!

In God's Love,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Does your fantasy conspiracy theory really say all that? I wonder where!

Michael, when I die that will be it. I will cease to be alive and my atoms will eventually be recycled. The only way I might live on is in the memories of others. There is no reason whatsoever to believe anything else.

The blasphemy was unnecessary (I admit it!) because none of this lunatic, schizoid, paranoid, totalitarian Mesopotamian man-god conspiracy has a hope of being true.

It's not even very entertaining. Rather unimaginative, actually.

Stuart


Dearest Stuart,

I'm sorry if I was so hard on you. You blasphemed the Holy Ghost twice on purpose. You ought not do that. It is a great no-no!! But if the Holy Ghost forgives you, then I do too. That's the only way. You will also find out that it isn't as easy as you think. You don't know how life works or how God has made it to work. Your soul never dies. Neither does your spirit. God made them that way. You ONLY either go to Heaven and live, or you go to Hell and live. Those are the ONLY TWO CHOICES!! You don't get to decide where your atoms go, or whatever. You will not CEASE to be ALIVE. You will still be alive in one place or the other. I know you wish it were different, but it isn't! So decide what you want and go for it. You don't get to die and just that's it. Remember that!!!

May God Help You In Your Decisions,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Mate, I've mentioned so many times already that I'm not responding to G&R's book, so you can save your breath quoting from it.

My last question is irrelevant to your topic on the formation of the moon but very relevant to my topic on your dogma. If you don't feel comfortable answering it, you of course don't have to, but dismissing it out of hand is just weak.

"There is nothing absurd about saying that it is more sense that an infinite being put earth and moon in place than chancing it to a Katrina"
There is nothing absurd about claiming devine origin (at least within our context), but there is if you are contesting whatever you mean by "Katrina". When I mentioned absurd arguments in my previous response, it was relating to your statement that you made which was indeed the definition of "argumentum ad absurdum", pity you can't recognise it.

"gifts from god through science" - I almost fell off my chair reading this, thanks for making me laugh at this oximoron quite so hard.

I really don't want to waste time going into a discussion about side topics, do you honestly look at an image of the planet and fail to notice the 80-85% of the surface covered by ocean, desert, mountains and extremely cold places where there are no humans???

I find your anectode about the scientific observation of the supernatural hillarious, since that's precisely the point of why science works.
Yes, the supernatural is unobservable per definition and the ultimate disproof of its existance is technically impossible. The point being is that whenever the supernatural INTERFERES with nature, the effects (i.e. your miracle) become observable and hence scientifically analysable.
Please tell me which phenomena are being observed that fall outside of the laws of nature. Why does your god have to hide so well?


Dear The Duke,

God hides so well because if He didn't, then EVERYONE would choose to seek Him, just to save themselves. He wants people who really love Him for Who He is, not just to get to go to Heaven. That is it in a nutshell. The same thing with the devil. If you knew it was the devil, you would not choose the way he is offering because you know it would lead away from God and lead you instead to Hell. Now you know!!

God Be With You!!

Michael
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top