Creation vs. Evolution

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Interplanner

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This paragraph below is from October 23, but I found it over at "Creation" at ECT. He was studying the vocab of Hebrews 11:2 and came to this realization:



This last part seems to Refer to Stars which are composed of Hydrogen Gas
which the Eye Cannot See ...........
The Hydrogen of a Star over the ages FUZES TO HELIUM, THEN TO SILICON, OXYGEN, CARBON AND FINALLY IRON AND BECOMES A BROWN DWARF WHICH COOLS DOWN TO FORM A PLANET WITH A MOLTEN IRON CORE AS WE HAVE HERE ON EARTH.

Thus Hydrogen which we cannot see becomes those PLANETS which we can see.




If anyone has seen a comment on this kind of thing from an astrophysicist, please let us know: Ross, Gonzales, Richards, etc.
 

6days

New member
If anyone has seen a comment on this kind of thing from an astrophysicist, please let us know: Ross, Gonzales, Richards, etc.
How about from astrophysicists such as Lisle who say the evidence supports God's Word and our designed, young universe?
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
that's a funny use of the term "God's Word". The last I checked Heb 11:2 was. Oh, I forgot, we are supposed to check with you about what is and is not God's word.

As I said originally, it depends on what Greek authors were saying at the time. I guess you are not familiar with the astronomical meaning of Jude and 2 Pet 2 about the 'blackness of darkness reserved forever.' You and your "God's word" I mean. As I recall, the ancients believed in black holes and were terrified of them. In the ancient sky, not polluted by all the light we now have, they not only saw stars better, but they also saw darknesses better, and Jude and Peter (in God's Word) said that those places were places of judgement, confinement, imprisonment.

So slow down and think about what you are saying.
 

noguru

Well-known member
that's a funny use of the term "God's Word". The last I checked Heb 11:2 was. Oh, I forgot, we are supposed to check with you about what is and is not God's word.

As I said originally, it depends on what Greek authors were saying at the time. I guess you are not familiar with the astronomical meaning of Jude and 2 Pet 2 about the 'blackness of darkness reserved forever.' You and your "God's word" I mean. As I recall, the ancients believed in black holes and were terrified of them. In the ancient sky, not polluted by all the light we now have, they not only saw stars better, but they also saw darknesses better, and Jude and Peter (in God's Word) said that those places were places of judgement, confinement, imprisonment.

So slow down and think about what you are saying.

I Talk to The Wind
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
How about from astrophysicists such as Lisle who say the evidence supports God's Word and our designed, young universe?


And they said what exactly about either Heb 11:2 or about brown dwarfs? Are the brown dwarfs optical illusions or is Heb 11:2?
 

seehigh

New member
Moses?
Inspired by God?

Nope... God tells us this...
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." . And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day

Notice God tells us the period of time... Continue reading Genesis to see what God does the following days.


You are adding to God's Word.



But it seems you are trying to fool everyone with your additions to scripture.


God wasn't on drugs as He inspired scripture?



Do you think God now breathes a sigh of relief that you give him a pass on fiction?
I assume with your deep knowledge of both the New Testament in the Old Testament that you knew the Pentateuch the way it is presented now certainly can be taken in a spiritual way, but biblical scholars now view that Genesis was not the first book written, but Deuteronomy was. Likely followed by Leviticus and Exodus.

Those biblical scholars base that not only on a textual criticism but also on a higher criticism level. You do know the difference do you not?
 
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Interplanner

Well-known member
I assume with your deep knowledge of both the New Testament in the Old Testament that you knew the Pentateuch the way it is presented now certainly can be taken in a spiritual way, but biblical scholars now view that Genesis was not the first book written, but Deuteronomy was. Likely followed by Leviticus and Exodus.

Those biblical scholars you that based on only on a textual criticism but also on a higher criticism level. You do know the difference do you not?



Please rewrite the last sentences.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Interplanner,
re: "Whoa, what does that mean?"

Merely that beliefs - convictions that someone or something does or doesn't exist or that a certain proposition is or isn't true - cannot be engendered by simply consciously choosing to have them.



I finally found the original. Did you mean that the belief has it's source in choosing to have them and nothing but choice? What if the belief has several compelling items in favor and you choose to believe them while others don't? Like the trial in TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD.
 

6days

New member
I assume with your deep knowledge of both the New Testament in the Old Testament that you knew the Pentateuch the way it is presented now certainly can be taken in a spiritual way
Of course. In fact most, if not all Christian doctrine is founded in Genesis.

but biblical scholars now view that Genesis was not the first book written, but Deuteronomy was.
I think Job is usually considered to be the oldest book.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Moses?
Inspired by God?

Nope... God tells us this...
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." . And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day

Notice God tells us the period of time... Continue reading Genesis to see what God does the following days.


You are adding to God's Word.



But it seems you are trying to fool everyone with your additions to scripture.


God wasn't on drugs as He inspired scripture?



Do you think God now breathes a sigh of relief that you give him a pass on fiction?



Yes, God inspired men and Moses to write Gen 1. It is importantly to read things in the Bible as normal human communication as much as possible.

You do not understand the Hebrew construction of the opening verses.

You don't understand section titles and how they were used in memorization.

You don't understand that a scene is painted before any creative work is done in the sense of Gen 1's days. Other creative work was done way before this. What matters to the account of Genesis (because the Bible moves efficiently to tell how man is to be redeemed) is what pertains to man, not all the details we wish about the universe or 'formless and void'.

You don't understand what 'formless and void' implies in its connection to other cosmologies and to Jer 4:23. Even if you only compared to to Jer 4:23, you have to say that there is a complex backstory. While writing the script of LOTR, Jackson said 'we knew we had to give the whole history of the place when Gandalf met Elrond at Rivendell and no later, but some of it had to be at the very beginning, or else you'd have this mysterious ring that was unmysterious to the viewer.' The backstory of Jer 4:23 is that a kingdom was started and peaked and was destroyed by God for its failures. Now read 'formless and void' not as bare physical description but as the end of an involved backstory.

There is the issue of morning and evening before the sun is there. It is reasonable to say that morning and evening are for account structure rather than a statement about celestial mechanics before day 4.

I'm not fooling anyone, but optical illusion dating is your admitting that God is fooling around. It sounds like Obama about Alaskan ice. There is scientific knowledge that you may not have that helps ground the Bible, like Oct23 on Heb 11:2. I hold some doubts, but I'm still considering it. There have been some scientific items you have mentioned that have been helpful, too.

About writers taking drugs or fantasizing, I'm just declaring for the person not familiar with the Bible, that it is clear to me as an ordinary document from the times that it is neither. I've read others which were either clearly bookkeeping records about debts or ENUMA ELISH. It only resembles EE during the 6 days. With all its theologically-useless items (rivers, gold, races) being very easily verified, I don't know why the theological lines would be tossed. Most of EE sounds contrived by comparison.
 

6days

New member
that's a funny use of the term "God's Word". The last I checked Heb 11:2 was.
We agree... Hebrews is part of God's Word.

As I said originally, it depends on what Greek authors were saying at the time.
No... its not what you say that matters. Its what God's Word says.

I guess you are not familiar with the astronomical meaning of Jude and 2 Pet 2 about the 'blackness of darkness reserved forever.' You and your "God's word" I mean. As I recall, the ancients believed in black holes and were terrified of them. In the ancient sky, not polluted by all the light we now have, they not only saw stars better, but they also saw darknesses better, and Jude and Peter (in God's Word) said that those places were places of judgement, confinement, imprisonment.
Nonsense.... You once again are trying to add things to God's Word. It says nothing at all about black holes in space.
So slow down and think about what you are saying.
Having 'slowed down to think'... I realize you keep trying to fabricate things into Gods Word. Jude and Peter say nothing about black holes in space being places of judgement.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Do you really think it is beyond His power to create whatever written documentation you need to think there really was 7 inches of snow years before last Thursday? But I understand, He just doesn’t do things like that to YOU. For decades now, as scientists in a variety of fields have studied the earth and the skies, God has had His big joke misleading THEM into thinking the earth was ancient, but He doesn’t do that with you, eh? What a good buddy God you worship, who plays jokes on thousands of scientists, but never on you.


Dear Davis,

I see you don't believe my quote. God doesn't play jokes on me.

Michael
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
We agree... Hebrews is part of God's Word.


No... its not what you say that matters. Its what God's Word says.


Nonsense.... You once again are trying to add things to God's Word. It says nothing at all about black holes in space.

Having 'slowed down to think'... I realize you keep trying to fabricate things into Gods Word. Jude and Peter say nothing about black holes in space being places of judgement.



You seriously need to get to know your Bible, sir. 2 pet 2:17: "Blackest darkness is reserved for them." Note that he already said angels who were evil were put in chains of darkness or gloomy dungeons.

"They are wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever." Jude 13. Now in this case, you might have a marginal case for extended metaphor. But notice at the same time what the metaphor is: that they ancients already knew that celestial bodies went off into darkness.

Those people are not as dim as we like to think. The "dialogue" in "Religion and Nature" by Lewis ends with him showing the scientist a quote from the 6th century that says that the earth was a mere mathematical point in a massive universe. Lewis uses this to show that the naturalist scientist was not as curious as he portended to be.

I have not even mentioned the Greek of blackest darkness here, because of course everyone is supposed to check with you on that. The next post will cover 'ekpalai' properly.
 
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