Creation vs. Evolution

[6days]

I wonder what 6days thinks about the mollusk eye. It's designed in the way you'd expect it to be

The seeing eye, and hearing ear...The Lord has made them. Prov. 20:12

not reverse engineered like ours. Otherwise, they're nearly identical.

Ophthalmologist George Marshal "The idea that the eye is wired backward comes from a lack of knowledge of eye function and anatomy.

Opthamologist Dr. H S Hamilton wrote:
"instead of being a great disadvantage, or a “curse” or being incorrectly constructed, the inverted retina is a tremendous advance in function and design compared with the simple and less complicated verted arrangement. One problem amongst many, for evolutionists, is to explain how this abrupt major retinal transformation from the verted type in invertebrates to the inverted vertebrate model came about as nothing in paleontology offers any support."

Ophthamologist, Peter W.V. Gurney wrote:
"This article reviews the reasons for our having the inverted retina and why the opposite arrangement (the verted retina), in which the photoreceptors are innermost and the first layer to receive incident light, would be liable to fail in creatures who have inverted retinas. I suggest that the need for protection of the retina against the injurious effects of light, particularly with the shorter wavelengths, and of the heat generated by focused light necessitates the inverted configuration of the retina in creatures possessing it."

Why would God give squid better eyes than us?

You sound jealous... and you sound like an evolutionist that knows things which aren't true. Most cephlapods are color blind, but even if they had better eyesight... why would that bother you. God gave dogs a better sense of smell.... God gave bats a type of radar.
Re. our eyes... opthamologist, Peter W.V. Gurney wrote:
"The human eye represents an excellent balance between versatility and performance"

Or how about the eyes of birds of prey? They are designed like ours, except their vision is unbelievably more effective

Yes... eagles have awesome vision.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear patrick jane,

I could not PM you, but it's okay. I won't die. I did add you to my Friend's List though. I thought you were there already. Cool!! Do you know that we were 107 degrees today. I'm in Phoenix, AZ: the desert. We have scorpions, brown, blonde, and black tarantulas, black widows, brown recluse spiders, rattlesnakes, and other fun things, like horned toads and armadillos, and mountain lions and antelope: I could go on. We have mile-wide haboobs {dust storms} and fiery lightning storms. No tornadoes though, because we're surrounded by mountains, so that breaks up the wind, but we do get dust devils {mini tornadoes}. We also get micro-bursts, something kind of destructive like a tornado, but in a smaller area. Well, I'd best get going. I'm off-topic. What else is new?

God Be With You And Your Loved Ones,

Michael

 

[6days]

Talk about a horrific waste if only a small fraction of the people lived at a time when we really know anything about how big it, and that fraction of the people are limited to seeing a tiny corner of it.

Like a Christian microbe living on a grain of sand on a vast beach at the seashore, all excited about seeing all the other grains of sand within a few inches of his, and never having visited a single other grain than the one he is on.

Ha... Love your analogy.
Even with the knowledge we have today... a hundred years from now, people likely will laugh at how little we knew of the the marvels of DNA... and the marvels of the universe.
Psalm 19:1
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands

 

[MichaelCadry]

The seeing eye, and hearing ear...The Lord has made them. Prov. 20:12

Ophthalmologist George Marshal "The idea that the eye is wired backward comes from a lack of knowledge of eye function and anatomy.

Opthamologist Dr. H S Hamilton wrote:
"instead of being a great disadvantage, or a “curse” or being incorrectly constructed, the inverted retina is a tremendous advance in function and design compared with the simple and less complicated verted arrangement. One problem amongst many, for evolutionists, is to explain how this abrupt major retinal transformation from the verted type in invertebrates to the inverted vertebrate model came about as nothing in paleontology offers any support."

Ophthamologist, Peter W.V. Gurney wrote:
"This article reviews the reasons for our having the inverted retina and why the opposite arrangement (the verted retina), in which the photoreceptors are innermost and the first layer to receive incident light, would be liable to fail in creatures who have inverted retinas. I suggest that the need for protection of the retina against the injurious effects of light, particularly with the shorter wavelengths, and of the heat generated by focused light necessitates the inverted configuration of the retina in creatures possessing it."



You sound jealous... and you sound like an evolutionist that knows things which aren't true. Most cephlapods are color blind, but even if they had better eyesight... why would that bother you. God gave dogs a better sense of smell.... God gave bats a type of radar.
Re. our eyes... opthamologist, Peter W.V. Gurney wrote:
"The human eye represents an excellent balance between versatility and performance"



Yes... eagles have awesome vision.

Dear 6days,

Thanks so much for the timely answer. There's quite a bit going on with our eyesight than I thought. I'm pretty pleased with mine. I used to have poor vision, but when I got cataracts, my optometrist send me to have surgery, and they evacuated my old lenses out of my eyes, and put in new lenses. Now I have 20/20 vision which I haven't had since 2nd grade. And the operation was totally painless and went off without a hitch. Cool, I think!!

God Bless The Pure In Heart, For They Shall See God!!

Michael


P.S. Got to run now for a few hours. I'll be back!!

 

[Kdall]

The seeing eye, and hearing ear...The Lord has made them. Prov. 20:12

Ophthalmologist George Marshal "The idea that the eye is wired backward comes from a lack of knowledge of eye function and anatomy.

Opthamologist Dr. H S Hamilton wrote:
"instead of being a great disadvantage, or a “curse” or being incorrectly constructed, the inverted retina is a tremendous advance in function and design compared with the simple and less complicated verted arrangement. One problem amongst many, for evolutionists, is to explain how this abrupt major retinal transformation from the verted type in invertebrates to the inverted vertebrate model came about as nothing in paleontology offers any support."

Ophthamologist, Peter W.V. Gurney wrote:
"This article reviews the reasons for our having the inverted retina and why the opposite arrangement (the verted retina), in which the photoreceptors are innermost and the first layer to receive incident light, would be liable to fail in creatures who have inverted retinas. I suggest that the need for protection of the retina against the injurious effects of light, particularly with the shorter wavelengths, and of the heat generated by focused light necessitates the inverted configuration of the retina in creatures possessing it."



You sound jealous... and you sound like an evolutionist that knows things which aren't true. Most cephlapods are color blind, but even if they had better eyesight... why would that bother you. God gave dogs a better sense of smell.... God gave bats a type of radar.
Re. our eyes... opthamologist, Peter W.V. Gurney wrote:
"The human eye represents an excellent balance between versatility and performance"



Yes... eagles have awesome vision.

Well if you're cool with our eyes not being "irreducibly complex," then we have no disagreement here. Save that the eye is designed back to front. For an example of front to back, see the mollusk eye

 

[MichaelCadry]

Well if you're cool with our eyes not being "irreducibly complex," then we have no disagreement here. Save that the eye is designed back to front. For an example of front to back, see the mollusk eye

Dear Kdall,

I'm pretty pleased with my own eyesight and my eyes. I don't want to have a mollusk's eyes. I've got enough going on. I'm glad things have slowed down here because I was two or three pages behind all of the time. Now I have some free time to tweet on Twitter and reach people that are not in the U.S. I have people all over the world who know what's happening. I've been keeping in touch whenever possible. The last thing on my mind is whether I want my eyes or a mollusk's eyes.

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cheers: :guitar: :singer:

 

[Kdall]

Dear Kdall,

I'm pretty pleased with my own eyesight and my eyes. I don't want to have a mollusk's eyes. I've got enough going on. I'm glad things have slowed down here because I was two or three pages behind all of the time. Now I have some free time to tweet on Twitter and reach people that are not in the U.S. I have people all over the world who know what's happening. I've been keeping in touch whenever possible. The last thing on my mind is whether I want my eyes or a mollusk's eyes.

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cheers: :guitar: :singer:

Our eyes are more finely tuned to color vision. Mollusks can see slightly more clearly, but their vision is probably dull on colors. In terms of having eyes that let you take in the beauty of the world around you, human eyes are second probably only to birds of prey.

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear Hedshaker,

The word is gall, not gawl. Like in gall bladder. If you choose to quit posting, I think it must be because you don't know how else to respond to the truth. It's okay.

Michael

Gawl Urban Dictionary

You wouldn't know "Truth" even if your lift went all the way to the top floor...... Ooops, I mean flaw!!


But thanks again for showing the sheer pointlessness of responding.....

 

[The Barbarian]

Our eyes are more finely tuned to color vision. Mollusks can see slightly more clearly, but their vision is probably dull on colors. In terms of having eyes that let you take in the beauty of the world around you, human eyes are second probably only to birds of prey.

Unfortunately, mammals have at most, three primary colors in their vision, and most have only two. The usual arrangement seems to be four colors. A very few humans seem to be true tetrachromats, and can see four colors.

Dinosaurs probably had better eyes than we do; their descendants among the birds are generally tetrachromats and have better resolution. One species of mantid shrimp has 12 different kinds of color detectors, but unfortunately, it's nervous system lacks the processing hardware to use it. They can't distinguish color much better than we can.

 

[6days]

Well if you're cool with our eyes not being "irreducibly complex," then we have no disagreement here. Save that the eye is designed back to front. For an example of front to back, see the mollusk eye

Irreducibly complex? I notice you have brought that topic up a few times. Are you wanting to discuss that rather than your mistaken..... (and old evolutionary beliefs) that our eye is designed incorrectly?

Ophthamologist, Peter W.V. Gurney wrote:
"This article reviews the reasons for our having the inverted retina and why the opposite arrangement (the verted retina), in which the photoreceptors are innermost and the first layer to receive incident light, would be liable to fail in creatures who have inverted retinas. I suggest that the need for protection of the retina against the injurious effects of light, particularly with the shorter wavelengths, and of the heat generated by focused light necessitates the inverted configuration of the retina in creatures possessing it."

 

[The Barbarian]

Irreducibly complex? I notice you have brought that topic up a few times. Are you wanting to discuss that rather than your mistaken..... (and old evolutionary beliefs) that our eye is designed incorrectly?

Ophthamologist, Peter W.V. Gurney wrote:
"This article reviews the reasons for our having the inverted retina and why the opposite arrangement (the verted retina), in which the photoreceptors are innermost and the first layer to receive incident light, would be liable to fail in creatures who have inverted retinas. I suggest that the need for protection of the retina against the injurious effects of light, particularly with the shorter wavelengths, and of the heat generated by focused light necessitates the inverted configuration of the retina in creatures possessing it."

But somehow snails and insects have no problems at all with right-side-out retinas.

No, that excuse won't fly.

 

[6days]

But somehow snails and insects have no problems at all with right-side-out retinas.

The term is 'verted' retina.
We have inverted.
You can thank our Creator that He gave us inverted retina eyes.

 

[Interplanner]

See Gonzales and ____ THE PRIVILEGED PLANET. Not only is the indication of design everywhere, the indication of observability is everywhere. They began their doc about the 1996 India solar eclipse. That event is basically what started them on their journey toward becoming Christians. The part of their doc that has to do with UV light and retinas is that a very small amount of lightwaves are viewable by humans which also matches their retina tolerances. Not only was this designed, it is designed to make things as observable as possible. Which is what many of the Biblical Psalms say about 'natural' phenomenon. "The heavens declare the glory of God..." G&__ have at least 20 of these extremely low margin examples that are 'Goldilocks' in the doc.

 

[alwight]

Irreducibly complex? I notice you have brought that topic up a few times. Are you wanting to discuss that rather than your mistaken..... (and old evolutionary beliefs) that our eye is designed incorrectly?

Ophthamologist, Peter W.V. Gurney wrote:
"This article reviews the reasons for our having the inverted retina and why the opposite arrangement (the verted retina), in which the photoreceptors are innermost and the first layer to receive incident light, would be liable to fail in creatures who have inverted retinas. I suggest that the need for protection of the retina against the injurious effects of light, particularly with the shorter wavelengths, and of the heat generated by focused light necessitates the inverted configuration of the retina in creatures possessing it."

Another YEC Ophthalmologist tries to explain how competent intelligent design applies to the human retina.
A literal Genesis for a YEC Ophthalmologist must always trump even his own science of course, therefore an explanation of some kind might help to ease his own cognitive dissonance somewhat?
However the normally accepted protection for the retina against strong light is the iris.

If further protection is actually required, although molluscs seem to cope well enough with their "verted" retinas, then why on Earth would that require the creation of a blind spot caused by the optics being connected to the front? Surely the optic nerve could still be connected at the rear while any further protection measures, if actually required, could still be constructed at the front.

The fact is that despite its long evolved legacy the human eye is nevertheless sufficiently good enough, but not something that would be worthy of a competent designer, taking pride in his work, starting from scratch.

 

[Interplanner]

Alwight,
could you write a review, then, of THE PRIVILEGED PLANET? Online.

 

[The Barbarian]

But somehow snails and insects have no problems at all with right-side-out retinas.

The term is 'verted' retina.

Dictionary Spelling Help
verted
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.



Did you mean vet?
More suggestions:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suggestions/verted

Nothing here, either.
http://www.sciencedictionary.org/search.php?ACTION=GET_SEARCH

The point, of course, is that the creationist excuse for us having a backwards retina, is clearly wrong.

The excuse:

Ophthamologist, Peter W.V. Gurney wrote:
"This article reviews the reasons for our having the inverted retina and why the opposite arrangement (the verted retina), in which the photoreceptors are innermost and the first layer to receive incident light, would be liable to fail in creatures who have inverted retinas. I suggest that the need for protection of the retina against the injurious effects of light, particularly with the shorter wavelengths, and of the heat generated by focused light necessitates the inverted configuration of the retina in creatures possessing it."

But snails and insects have no trouble at all, with the retina right-side-out. So another creationist story collapses.

 

[The Barbarian]

If further protection is actually required, although molluscs seem to cope well enough with their "verted" retinas, then why on Earth would that require the creation of a blind spot caused by the optics being connected to the front? Surely the optic nerve could still be connected at the rear while any further protection measures, if actually required, could still be constructed at the front.

A reasonably competent designer, even the "space alien" designer of the creationists, could figure out how to make an inverted retina without a blind spot.

But if it was evolved as the Creator intended, a blind spot would be expected. So long as it wasn't a serious flaw, (and except in very special circumstances, it's not) no reason to evolve a solution for something that's not a major problem.

Another reason to reject the space alien and accept a Creator Who used evolution.

 

[Jose Fly]

Another YEC Ophthalmologist tries to explain how competent intelligent design applies to the human retina.

That's how it works. Creationists truly believe things are so merely because someone on their team says so.

It's interesting in the context of 6days' repeatedly stating that "evolutionists and creationists look at the same data, but just interpret it differently". That leads to an obvious question: Which interpretation is winning the day?

Given that creationism hasn't contributed a single thing to science in at least a century, whereas evolutionary biology continues to serve as the interpretive framework for all the life sciences across the world, I'd say we have our answer.

 

[alwight]

A reasonably competent designer, even the "space alien" designer of the creationists, could figure out how to make an inverted retina without a blind spot.

But if it was evolved as the Creator intended, a blind spot would be expected. So long as it wasn't a serious flaw, (and except in very special circumstances, it's not) no reason to evolve a solution for something that's not a major problem.

Another reason to reject the space alien and accept a Creator Who used evolution.

I'll go along with all that although I'm agnostic about a Creator, but clearly a sufficiently good eye has evolved over a long time and as a result of multiple steps of evolution by natural selection, therefore it happened without a specific objective eye design in mind. A Creator may simply have known that adequate vision would no doubt evolve but without a specific optimal design. Evolution only has to work well enough, but actually being of optimal design probably only matters to a person/designer/creator who would no doubt find that a blind spot was highly unsatisfactory in an organ designed for vision that they would want to put their moniker on.

 

[alwight]

Alwight,
could you write a review, then, of THE PRIVILEGED PLANET? Online.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Privileged_Planet