Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

The argument over whether the human appendix is a vestigial organ has reared its head rather regularly in this thread. If it is repeatedly put forth by the same people on each side as supporting their side of the evolution-creation argument, then either there was no admission by either side that they were wrong the first time it came up, or else one side is demonstrating that they are being dishonest.

In this recent conflict, primarily between The Barbarian and 6days, I note that 6days presents an article from a credible source, titled “Appendix isn’t useless at all, it’s a Safe House for Bacteria”. The problem I see is that it says nothing that The Barbarian hadn’t already agreed to. Being “useless” is not a necessary characteristic of vestigial organs. The biological community has no issue with the appendix performing the function described in the article, and yet still viewing it as vestigial.

There has to be an agreement between the creationists (aka 6days) and the biologists (aka The Barbarian) on specifically what defines whether or not the appendix can be validly considered as vestigial. Lacking that agreement, the two sides are simply applying different yardsticks and coming up with different numbers, and then claiming therefore the opponent’s number is the wrong one.

Dear DavisBJ,

Hey Buddy!! If the appendix is a safe haven for good bacteria, then yippee!! I take a probiotic every morning/afternoon when I wake up. You know I am on this computer very late, so I wake up late. Today, I did not wake up until 1:30pm. That's really a first or so. I usually don't sleep that long. Anyway, I take a probiotic that has all the good bacteria in it. One bacteria makes you crave sugar. This probiotic I take fixes that. It kills that bad bacteria. Okay, will get going for now!!

Much Love, In Christ,

Michael

:cheers: :guitar: :singer: :angel: :cloud9: :thumb:

 

[MichaelCadry]

The appendix is useful for everyone.
"Appendix Isn't Useless at All: It's a Safe House for Bacteria"
http://corporate.dukemedicine.org/news_and_publications/news_office/news/10151

But their are countless other examples of vestigial body parts.
NO.... NONE! (none that are a remnant from non human ancestor)

But, since you think there are countless vestigial parts....list the one you think is most and let's discuss it.


Wow.... that was a quick answer, displaying your ignorance of science and your ignorance of God.

God created humans distinct from animals. Man was formed from the dust. Woman was formed from man's rib. So we know for a fact that our tailbone / coccyx is not a biological remnant from non human ancestors.*

Also it's been known for many years that our coccyx serves as an important anchoring point for various muscles assisting us in sitting uptight and in defecating.*

God's Word tells us we are wonderfully made.*

Dear 6days,

What a lovely post!! Such timely and eloquent words. Just kidding! I sure am counting on Armageddon happening this Autumn. Hope for the best!! It's good to see you here, 6days. IMJerusha paid a wonderful visit here yesterday. Wow, is she smart. She holds her own better than even me. Just stunning and poignant. Quite capable indeed. I wish she would stay here for good. She amazes me! You're pretty good yourself, too, 6days. You're just wonderful to have around and you know exactly the right things to say. I'm proud of you and I'm going to see if it will let me give you more good rep pts. You take care and keep in touch. Like every five mins. LOL!!

Tons Of Love, In Christ,

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :thumb: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

The problem with that train of thought is that there are literally billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, making up billions of solar systems with trillions of planets and moons. Odds dictate that the right conditions for life would absolutely have to arise at a minimum of several of these potential locations. Do you think that Earth is the only home to life in the universe? The odds of that are beyond impossible

Dear Kdall,

You would think that, but I'm not too sure that it's true. I think that the Universe was made for man's awe and benefit. Whether there is an ancient galaxy that has an Earth with people that dwell on it, I doubt it, even though the galaxy is huge. There could be a veil up that makes us think that our galaxy is one of many. Time will tell. It's not like we've gone to these far away galaxies. It's possible though. I am not arguing with you about it at all, so don't get me wrong, Kdall. I'm just saying that I lean towards a one in a lifetime Earth that is just ideal as far as position, etc. to have man inhabit it.

God's Best For You And Yours!!

Michael

:cheers: atrol: :guitar: :singer: :cloud9: :angel:

​

 

[patrick jane]

Dear Kdall,

You would think that, but I'm not too sure that it's true. I think that the Universe was made for man's awe and benefit. Whether there is an ancient galaxy that has an Earth with people that dwell on it, I doubt it, even though the galaxy is huge. There could be a veil up that makes us think that our galaxy is one of many. Time will tell. It's not like we've gone to these far away galaxies. It's possible though. I am not arguing with you about it at all, so don't get me wrong, Kdall. I'm just saying that I lean towards a one in a lifetime Earth that is just ideal as far as position, etc. to have man inhabit it.

God's Best For You And Yours!!

Michael

:cheers: atrol: :guitar: :singer: :cloud9: :angel:

​

i'm not sure folks can read the fancy font and color -

Pristina ?

 

[Aimiel]

If there is life on other planets... Christ died for them!

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[MichaelCadry]

i'm not sure folks can read the fancy font and color -

Pristina ?

Dear patrick,

It's not THAT hard to read. I give people more credit than that. Just takes a little doing. It beats the same old font all of the time. You want a different color to help you read it. I can accommodate you there. I'll even use a different font. How's that? Hey twin brother. I try to do my best!! God's Blessings Work Wonders In Your Life!!

Michael

:bang: :cheers: atrol: :guitar: :singer: :angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

I've not suggested that you don't listen to whoever you want to Michael, I'm telling you why I'm not at all convinced that some anonymous person from the past was being entirely factual, and why I don't understand when other people are.
It isn't that I simply believe in Darwin's words, I believe from my understanding of the evidence that what he proposed is indeed true.

Dear alwight,

Didn't Darwin regret what he said about evolution? I thought he had changed his mind? Well, what does one man know that you will follow after this strange leader. A simple man, who can do no miracles, and isn't at all comparable to Jesus, so don't try. I don't want you blaspheming Jesus just to prove your point. It would not behoove me to do so.

Tons Of Love And Care!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :thumb: :angel: :cloud9: :angrymob:

 

[6days]

Originally Posted by*6days*

The appendix is useful for everyone.
"Appendix Isn't Useless at All: It's a Safe House for Bacteria"
http://corporate.dukemedicine.org/ne...ice/news/10151

The argument over whether the human appendix is a vestigial organ has reared its head rather regularly in this thread. If it is repeatedly put forth by the same people on each side as supporting their side of the evolution-creation argument, then either there was no admission by either side that they were wrong the first time it came up, or else one side is demonstrating that they are being dishonest.

In this recent conflict, primarily between The Barbarian and 6days, I note that 6days presents an article from a credible source, titled “Appendix isn’t useless at all, it’s a Safe House for Bacteria”. The problem I see is that it says nothing that The Barbarian hadn’t already agreed to. Being “useless” is not a necessary characteristic of vestigial organs. The biological community has no issue with the appendix performing the function described in the article, and yet still viewing it as vestigial.

There has to be an agreement between the creationists (aka 6days) and the biologists (aka The Barbarian) on specifically what defines whether or not the appendix can be validly considered as vestigial. Lacking that agreement, the two sides are simply applying different yardsticks and coming up with different numbers, and then claiming therefore the opponent’s number is the wrong one.

Really good comments! .. mostly

But.... you have things backwards slightly. It was Barbarian trying to move goal posts who brought the word 'useless' into this particular conversation.*

REVIEW
6days: "We have knowledge of mutation rates, genetic drift, sexual selection, adaptation, so called "junk DNA, so called 'vestigial organs, 'Psuedogenes' and more.
And then we have BELIEFS about our common Designer... or common ancestor."
Barbarian: "of course, there are many, many vestigial organs, such as the appendix. Please don't bother showing us the creationist misconception that "vestigial" means "useless.

 

[MichaelCadry]

If there is life on other planets... Christ died for them!

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Dear Aimiel,

I think we are it in our galaxy. We can see a lot further than we could ever before. It is also good that we sent out a spacecraft that could view every planet in our solar system. But as far as going to another galaxy, I don't see it happening. Good to hear from you here. I don't know if you've ever posted here. I'm proud of you. I'm also very proud of IMJerusha's visits here. She is incredibly wise and smart. God Bless Your Heart, Aimiel!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :cheers: :bang: atrol: :thumb:

 

[seehigh]

If there is life on other planets... Christ died for them!

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Covering all your bases are you?

 

[Kdall]

The appendix is useful for everyone.
"Appendix Isn't Useless at All: It's a Safe House for Bacteria"
http://corporate.dukemedicine.org/news_and_publications/news_office/news/10151

But their are countless other examples of vestigial body parts
NO.... NONE! (none that are a remnant from non human ancestor)

But, since you think there are countless vestigial parts....list the one you think is most and let's discuss it.


Wow.... that was a quick answer, displaying your ignorance of science and your ignorance of God.

God created humans distinct from animals. Man was formed from the dust. Woman was formed from man's rib. So we know for a fact that our tailbone / coccyx is not a biological remnant from non human ancestors.*

Also it's been known for many years that our coccyx serves as an important anchoring point for various muscles assisting us in sitting uptight and in defecating.*

God's Word tells us we are wonderfully made.*

For people who are born with a coccyx, yes it anchors some structures. However, the fact that some people are born without it perfectly fine shows it is not necessary. Same goes for wisdom teeth. They are relics from another time

Two others are a flap of skin on the eyelid and the pili structure that causes goosebumps. Both served a purpose once upon a time, but now are more or less useless. Unless you just like getting goosebumps

 

[MichaelCadry]

Careful, Michael. That's the same advice I'd give to you

Dear Kdall,

Thank you for your concern. I do appreciate it. Yes, I do have to be so very careful about what I say. I blew it once adopting an OEC mentality over a YEC belief. I am pleased now with my choice of being YEC. It is really hard being a YEC considering everything around me seems to be old and all. I can see why people would be OECs. But I have to go with believing what God says in the Bible.

Well, will get going Buddy!! I didn't write this is a different font and color because I was thinking you didn't like it. But I think it is SO nice to have different type styles {fonts} and colors. Much more pleasant!! Catch you in a bit!!

Michael

 

[Kdall]

Dear Kdall,

Thank you for your concern. I do appreciate it. Yes, I do have to be so very careful about what I say. I blew it once adopting an OEC mentality over a YEC belief. I am pleased now with my choice of being YEC. It is really hard being a YEC considering everything around me seems to be old and all. I can see why people would be OECs. But I have to go with believing what God says in the Bible.

Well, will get going Buddy!! I didn't write this is a different font and color because I was thinking you didn't like it. But I think it is SO nice to have different type styles {fonts} and colors. Much more pleasant!! Catch you in a bit!!

Michael

Lol your color choice earlier was fine

 

[DavisBJ]

Really good comments! .. mostly

But.... you have things backwards slightly. It was Barbarian trying to move goal posts who brought the word 'useless' into this particular conversation.*

REVIEW
6days: "We have knowledge of mutation rates, genetic drift, sexual selection, adaptation, so called "junk DNA, so called 'vestigial organs, 'Psuedogenes' and more.
And then we have BELIEFS about our common Designer... or common ancestor."
Barbarian: "of course, there are many, many vestigial organs, such as the appendix. Please don't bother showing us the creationist misconception that "vestigial" means "useless.

I was aware that The Barbarian has made the statement that it is a creationist misconception that vestigial means useless. When I saw that the article title said the appendix was not “useless”, I wondered if that, in a creationists’ mind, instantly proved the appendix was not vestigial. So let me ask you directly, is it possible for an organ to perform a useful function, and yet be vestigial?

 

[6days]

people who are born with a coccyx, yes it anchors some structures. However, the fact that some people are born without it perfectly fine shows it is not necessary. Same goes for wisdom teeth. They are relics from another time

Two others are a flap of skin on the eyelid and the pili structure that causes goosebumps. Both served a purpose once upon a time, but now are more or less useless. Unless you just like getting goosebumps

Some time ago...I think it was you who mentioned Bible discrepancies. *I asked you to pick the best example...just one that you thought was the real deal. If it was you... you refused and listed several.*


Now... same thing again... I challenged you with "But, since you think there are countless vestigial parts....list the one you think is most and let's discuss it."

Afraid to list your best example? You think you need backups incase your #1 example fails?*

BTW... you arw welcome for the science class today learning about the coccyx and appendix.

 

[Kdall]

Some time ago...I think it was you who mentioned Bible discrepancies. *I asked you to pick the best example...just one that you thought was the real deal. If it was you... you refused and listed several.*


Now... same thing again... I challenged you with "But, since you think there are countless vestigial parts....list the one you think is most and let's discuss it."

Afraid to list your best example? You think you need backups incase your #1 example fails?*

BTW... you arw welcome for the science class today learning about the coccyx and appendix.

The fact that you think you corrected me is amusing, but I digress

Fine. If you want one example here it is: arrector pili (the things that cause goosebumps)

Beat me

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear DavisBJ,

Hey Buddy!! If the appendix is a safe haven for good bacteria, then yippee!! I take a probiotic every morning/afternoon when I wake up. … I take a probiotic that has all the good bacteria in it. One bacteria makes you crave sugar. This probiotic I take fixes that. It kills that bad bacteria. Okay, will get going for now!!

Much Love, In Christ,

Michael

Michael, thanks for the update on your personal medication regimen. However, as it relates to the vestigial organ question, your post offers no relevant information.

A whole lot of people, like you, may feel gratitude for that small job that appendix God gave you does. But for me, and more than 300,000 new cases each year, that God-given appendix turned out to be a life-threatening malfunctioning piece of garbage, and had to be removed. The appendix gives you a small benefit, yet like so many of us, if you had it removed your life would be almost unchanged. For me it was something that I would have been much better off never having had.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Are you freaking kidding me? This is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. You want to blame everyone else for the ugly parts of our own history. Well stop, and instead be honest with yourself for the first time......maybe ever.

Slavery was justified by slave owners, not through evolution (which didn't even exist as a formal theory when slavery was in its heyday), but instead by using the Bible. Verses about how slaves should behave toward their masters were cited by plantation owners, and the Mark of Cain was said to be the dark skin of Africans as well as the darker skin of Native Americans.

It sickens me how hypocritical you are sometimes

Dear Kdall,

It is written that Ham would serve his brethren. This was because of something he did when he saw his father naked. I can't remember where it is written of, but if you need help finding it, let me know and I will hunt it down for you, buddy!!

May God Adorn You Will His Excellent Spirit!!

Michael

 

[6days]

was aware that The Barbarian has made the statement that it is a creationist misconception that vestigial means useless. When I saw that the article title said the appendix was not “useless”, I wondered if that, in a creationists’ mind, instantly proved the appendix was not vestigial.

OK. .. but note that I posted that link to Kdall to show he didn't understand the function of the appendix. He thought the appendix was useless in most people.*

Re your comment about Barabarian. .. he simply was being dishonest. *I understand the evolutionists definition of vestigial as well as he... and I have never argued that vestigial means useless. I have however argued and shown that evolutionists in the past called many organs such as the appendix "useless".*

So let me ask you directly, is it possible for an organ to perform a useful function, and yet be vestigial?

Let me dodge that one until I see if Kdall answers my challenge. If my reply to him doesn't answer you... please ask again.*

 

[MichaelCadry]

I've not suggested that you don't listen to whoever you want to Michael, I'm telling you why I'm not at all convinced that some anonymous person from the past was being entirely factual, and why I don't understand when other people are.
It isn't that I simply believe in Darwin's words, I believe from my understanding of the evidence that what he proposed is indeed true.

Dear alwight,

But what he proposed isn't true and it is preposterous. Darwin is a joke! Please don't be mad at me, Al!!

Michael