Creation vs. Evolution

[MichaelCadry]

So the only proof you'd accept would be to somehow compress 2.5 billion years of evolution into something observable in one lifetime?

Dear Kdall,

It is only a nomenclature to think that evolution is actually 2.5 billion years old. Chances are likely that it is more like 6-7,000 years old. I don't care what is used as a dating method. Scientists have been wrong over and over, so no use to surprise me now. Same with the age of the Universe. It's all hopeful enumeration. A grand faux pax.

The Bible says that there is a Creator. It says how long the Creator took to create each thing He created. Now you believe what you want to, but stay away from speaking lies about Him and His creations.

Michael

 

[alwight]

Dear Alwight,

What makes you think that my evidence is not as good as yours? Many scholars and apostles, and even disciples, spent a lot of time putting all of their experiences pen to paper. They don't count because it happened 2,000 years ago, but I am supposed to believe that you have evidence that is 10,000 or 2 million years old and that's okay, eh? I love you dearly Al, but you are hardly being fair to me.

God Be With You!!

Michael

:guitar: :cheers: :bang: :cloud9: :angel: :thumb:

Michael, what you like to think of as evidence cannot be verified, tested or falsified, your "evidence" is just words that an unverifiable anonymous author composed a long time ago.

The four gospels were more than likely to have been simply dramatized later accounts by early Christian evangelists. Yet for some people today such unsupported words alone are enough for them to believe in fantastic miracles, which isn't being particularly rational or objective imo. It's just anonymous hearsay, nothing of substance.
Why do you reject other ancient words from other religious cultures that may also speak of fantastic and miraculous things?

People who write words (words that they want to be listened to and not ignored anyway), are rather likely to embellish and exaggerate to pull in the punters, its quite natural.
Otoh it may simply have been that the fantastic and miraculous were rather more likely to have been compiled into the Bible in the fourth century than some dull factual account that didn't fire the imagination.

Michael, people just do typically tell tall stories exaggerate and make stuff up! There needs to be some testable evidence, not hearsay or a later reimagining of an earlier story, which I can dismiss more easily than they wrote them.

 

[Kdall]

Again I have to ask what your point is with stuff like this? Should I be posting examples of horrible things done by Christians in the 1800's and early 1900's?

Unfortunately, as you're well aware, Christianity has committed horrible acts of human rights violations and mass murder, as have most other major religions. It bothers me how Christians want to throw stones at atheists or other belief systems and also scientists from previous eras, yet ignore their own brutal history

 

[Kdall]

Sure... Post away! But try stay on topic.

I can think o0f one example for you. Some Christians compromised on what God's Word tells us about humanity, and bought into evolutionary ideas. This lead to racism and slavery. Fortunately other Christians did not buy the lie... and fought to end slavery and racism.

Are you freaking kidding me? This is exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. You want to blame everyone else for the ugly parts of our own history. Well stop, and instead be honest with yourself for the first time......maybe ever.

Slavery was justified by slave owners, not through evolution (which didn't even exist as a formal theory when slavery was in its heyday), but instead by using the Bible. Verses about how slaves should behave toward their masters were cited by plantation owners, and the Mark of Cain was said to be the dark skin of Africans as well as the darker skin of Native Americans.

It sickens me how hypocritical you are sometimes

 

[Kdall]

You just exposed your ignorance of such things. "Junk DNA" (that's what creationists call non-coding DNA) has been known by evolutionists to have functions well over 30 years ago. Creationists still call it "junk."

And of course, there are many, many vestigial organs, such as the appendix. Please don't bother showing us the creationist misconception that "vestigial" means "useless." It can be so, but as Darwin noted, many vestigial organs have evolved new uses.



(Creationists demoted God to a "space alien" designer, because they are uncomfortable with a Creator capable of using nature to serve His purposes)

To be fair, the appendix actually does have a function for those who live in third world countries. But their are countless other examples of vestigial body parts. The coccyx, or tailbone, is one of the best.

6days, how do you explain the tailbone? Did God just give us a nub on our butt for kicks?

 

[Kdall]

simply put, the earth, sun, moon and everything being just right for life. just the right temperature, water, air, distances from moon and sun. all the intricacies of dna and LIFE in general. brains, hearts,and SPIRITUAL understanding. everything just happened ? not a chance in hell -

The problem with that train of thought is that there are literally billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, making up billions of solar systems with trillions of planets and moons. Odds dictate that the right conditions for life would absolutely have to arise at a minimum of several of these potential locations. Do you think that Earth is the only home to life in the universe? The odds of that are beyond impossible

 

[MichaelCadry]

Alwight & Michael-8-26-2015

Alwight & Michael-8-26-2015

Michael, what you like to think of as evidence cannot be verified, tested or falsified, your "evidence" is just words that an unverifiable anonymous author composed a long time ago.

The four gospels were more than likely to have been simply dramatized later accounts by early Christian evangelists. Yet for some people today such unsupported words alone are enough for them to believe in fantastic miracles, which isn't being particularly rational or objective imo. It's just anonymous hearsay, nothing of substance.
Why do you reject other ancient words from other religious cultures that may also speak of fantastic and miraculous things?

People who write words (words that they want to be listened to and not ignored anyway), are rather likely to embellish and exaggerate to pull in the punters, its quite natural.
Otoh it may simply have been that the fantastic and miraculous were rather more likely to have been compiled into the Bible in the fourth century than some dull factual account that didn't fire the imagination.

Michael, people just do typically tell tall stories exaggerate and make stuff up! There needs to be some testable evidence, not hearsay or a later reimagining of an earlier story, which I can dismiss more easily than they wrote them.

Dear Alwight,

I thought for sure I'd sent you a copy of my book. Did I? If not, let me know and I will get an autographed copy out to you. With some Proof Pages, including a letter to a major reporter telling him that God would send 7 inches of snow upon his newspaper bldg. and it happened, so the reporter would know that God was with me and he could believe what the Lord told me to say. Let me know if you received that. I have a newspaper article from a rival newspaper saying that 7 inches of snow hit the newspaper bldg. I can prove myself and I do have substantial facts to go with them. You don't let me provide my 'evidence' and that isn't fair. I will send you my latest edition. It makes a big difference. Let me know in a PM.

That's all for now. God be with you and your loved ones!!

Michael

 

[Kdall]

Now you believe what you want to, but stay away from speaking lies about Him and His creations.

Michael

Careful, Michael. That's the same advice I'd give to you

 

[TracerBullet]

you're only bitter. it's bitterness of something, combined with your life experience and knowledge. you can't unknow what you know to be true.

Did saying that make you feel better about yourself?

 

[TracerBullet]

simply put, the earth, sun, moon and everything being just right for life. just the right temperature, water, air, distances from moon and sun. all the intricacies of dna and LIFE in general. brains, hearts,and SPIRITUAL understanding. everything just happened ? not a chance in hell -

Strawman

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, what you like to think of as evidence cannot be verified, tested or falsified, your "evidence" is just words that an unverifiable anonymous author composed a long time ago.

The four gospels were more than likely to have been simply dramatized later accounts by early Christian evangelists. Yet for some people today such unsupported words alone are enough for them to believe in fantastic miracles, which isn't being particularly rational or objective imo. It's just anonymous hearsay, nothing of substance.
Why do you reject other ancient words from other religious cultures that may also speak of fantastic and miraculous things?

People who write words (words that they want to be listened to and not ignored anyway), are rather likely to embellish and exaggerate to pull in the punters, its quite natural.
Otoh it may simply have been that the fantastic and miraculous were rather more likely to have been compiled into the Bible in the fourth century than some dull factual account that didn't fire the imagination.

Michael, people just do typically tell tall stories exaggerate and make stuff up! There needs to be some testable evidence, not hearsay or a later reimagining of an earlier story, which I can dismiss more easily than they wrote them.

Dear alwight,

Why shouldn't I listen to others before me who have something important and factual to say. You do the same thing with Darwin and others. So I can do it with Jesus' mother, brother and husband, and Jesus Himself. And Isaiah, Ezekiel, John the Baptist, David king of Israel. Certainly, they have found out that he was an actual king of Israel. I could go on for many pages, but my people are not acceptable by you. For you, it is Darwin or nothing, etc. Anyway, I've got to call it a night Al, because it's getting quite late here and I have to go to bed. I'm glad I caught you 2nite. I love to talk with you when you write. You're the best!! May God watch over you closely!!

Michael

 

[alwight]

Dear alwight,

Why shouldn't I listen to others before me who have something important and factual to say. You do the same thing with Darwin and others. So I can do it with Jesus' mother, brother and husband, and Jesus Himself. And Isaiah, Ezekiel, John the Baptist, David king of Israel. Certainly, they have found out that he was an actual king of Israel. I could go on for many pages, but my people are not acceptable by you. For you, it is Darwin or nothing, etc. Anyway, I've got to call it a night Al, because it's getting quite late here and I have to go to bed. I'm glad I caught you 2nite. I love to talk with you when you write. You're the best!! May God watch over you closely!!

Michael

I've not suggested that you don't listen to whoever you want to Michael, I'm telling you why I'm not at all convinced that some anonymous person from the past was being entirely factual, and why I don't understand when other people are.
It isn't that I simply believe in Darwin's words, I believe from my understanding of the evidence that what he proposed is indeed true.

 

[The Barbarian]

To be fair, the appendix actually does have a function for those who live in third world countries.

It can, in our country, too. For example, it is a place where normal intestinal flora can survive when there's severe infection or antibiotic treatments. None of that matters, since "vestigial" has always meant "no longer used for the original purpose", not "useless." There are useless vestigial organs, but often, as Darwin mentioned, they are evolved to new uses.

But their are countless other examples of vestigial body parts. The coccyx, or tailbone, is one of the best.

Pretty obviously that's a useless vestigial organ, since coccygeal agenesis (total absence of that structure) is fairly common, and people never know they are missing it, unless they get an X-ray.

My favorite would be the perfectly-formed wings locked under fused wing covers, found in many island species of beetles.

 

[alwight]

Dear Alwight,

I thought for sure I'd sent you a copy of my book. Did I? If not, let me know and I will get an autographed copy out to you. With some Proof Pages, including a letter to a major reporter telling him that God would send 7 inches of snow upon his newspaper bldg. and it happened, so the reporter would know that God was with me and he could believe what the Lord told me to say. Let me know if you received that. I have a newspaper article from a rival newspaper saying that 7 inches of snow hit the newspaper bldg. I can prove myself and I do have substantial facts to go with them. You don't let me provide my 'evidence' and that isn't fair. I will send you my latest edition. It makes a big difference. Let me know in a PM.

That's all for now. God be with you and your loved ones!!

Michael

I'm sorry Michael but respectfully if your God nevertheless exists despite my contrary intuition, then I'd still have my doubts that such an amazing omnipotent being would choose to commune with only a few selected people (people who imo would probably tend to believe what they believe anyway), but not others, least of all doubters like me, then I really can't believe that God would need to communicate through the medium of snow. lain:

 

[Kdall]

It can, in our country, too. For example, it is a place where normal intestinal flora can survive when there's severe infection or antibiotic treatments. None of that matters, since "vestigial" has always meant "no longer used for the original purpose", not "useless." There are useless vestigial organs, but often, as Darwin mentioned, they are evolved to new uses.



Pretty obviously that's a useless vestigial organ, since coccygeal agenesis (total absence of that structure) is fairly common, and people never know they are missing it, unless they get an X-ray.

My favorite would be the perfectly-formed wings locked under fused wing covers, found in many island species of beetles.

Wisdom teeth are another one of my favorites. Many Hispanic people no longer even have them to begin with

 

[Jose Fly]

Sure... Post away! But try stay on topic.

I can think o0f one example for you. Some Christians compromised on what God's Word tells us about humanity, and bought into evolutionary ideas. This lead to racism and slavery. Fortunately other Christians did not buy the lie... and fought to end slavery and racism.

You didn't answer the question. You posted an example of people who you call "evolutionists" doing something terrible. What is your point?

 

[noguru]

No, the problem is with you, noguru. I asked God again tonight by a sign of rain {which I am allowed to do; see Rev:11:6KJV} whether He created man before man (our Adam) and He said No!! So, man is 6-7,000 years old and the rest is just the bling that God lets man believe, should he be so inclined and deceived. The devil brings many lies to men's heads and hearts. I suppose you don't see how the Greeks and Romans started believing in other gods before Jesus first came upon the Earth. And they saw 'flying chariots', quite similar to our 'flying saucers' now that we see before Jesus' second coming. Wise up, amigo! I'm not trying to agitate you here. I'm just trying to get a message through. Please don't take it any other way, noguru!! I do care very much for you and you know it. So don't let my choice of words get to you. PLEASE!!

May God Fill Your Heart With Laughter And Joy!!

Michael

:cheers: :guitar: :singer: :angrymob: :cloud9: :angel:

So in your opinion how do i correct "the problem" you allege i have. I understand how evolution is an explanation for biodiversity. I think that even a person who does not accept evolution should at least understand it, dont you think?

 

[seehigh]

Missing link found by University of Alberta paleontologist

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150826081720.htm

 

[6days]

To be fair, the appendix actually does have a function for those who live in third world countries.

The appendix is useful for everyone.
"Appendix Isn't Useless at All: It's a Safe House for Bacteria"
http://corporate.dukemedicine.org/news_and_publications/news_office/news/10151

But their are countless other examples of vestigial body parts. [/QUOTE]
NO.... NONE! (none that are a remnant from non human ancestor)

But, since you think there are countless vestigial parts....list the one you think is most and let's discuss it.

The coccyx, or tailbone, is one of the best.

Wow.... that was a quick answer, displaying your ignorance of science and your ignorance of God.

God created humans distinct from animals. Man was formed from the dust. Woman was formed from man's rib. So we know for a fact that our tailbone / coccyx is not a biological remnant from non human ancestors.*

Also it's been known for many years that our coccyx serves as an important anchoring point for various muscles assisting us in sitting uptight and in defecating.*

God's Word tells us we are wonderfully made.*

 

[DavisBJ]

Eternally arguing past each other

Eternally arguing past each other

The appendix is useful for everyone.
"Appendix Isn't Useless at All: It's a Safe House for Bacteria"
http://corporate.dukemedicine.org/news_and_publications/news_office/news/10151

The argument over whether the human appendix is a vestigial organ has reared its head rather regularly in this thread. If it is repeatedly put forth by the same people on each side as supporting their side of the evolution-creation argument, then either there was no admission by either side that they were wrong the first time it came up, or else one side is demonstrating that they are being dishonest.

In this recent conflict, primarily between The Barbarian and 6days, I note that 6days presents an article from a credible source, titled “Appendix isn’t useless at all, it’s a Safe House for Bacteria”. The problem I see is that it says nothing that The Barbarian hadn’t already agreed to. Being “useless” is not a necessary characteristic of vestigial organs. The biological community has no issue with the appendix performing the function described in the article, and yet still viewing it as vestigial.

There has to be an agreement between the creationists (aka 6days) and the biologists (aka The Barbarian) on specifically what defines whether or not the appendix can be validly considered as vestigial. Lacking that agreement, the two sides are simply applying different yardsticks and coming up with different numbers, and then claiming therefore the opponent’s number is the wrong one.