Creation vs. Evolution

[TracerBullet]

Sure... Post away! But try stay on topic.

I can think o0f one example for you. Some Christians compromised on what God's Word tells us about humanity, and bought into evolutionary ideas. This lead to racism and slavery. Fortunately other Christians did not buy the lie... and fought to end slavery and racism.

a fine example of revisionist hisotry

 

[DavisBJ]

Nope... not really. But when you mention goo to zoo... It made me think of desperate and sad measures some have gone to trying to prove their common ancestry beliefs... even putting a black man in the zoo.

Goo to zoo is something IMJ brought into the discussion.

 

[The Barbarian]

We have knowledge of mutation rates, genetic drift, sexual selection, adaptation, so called "junk DNA, so called 'vestigial organs, 'Psuedogenes' and more.

You just exposed your ignorance of such things. "Junk DNA" (that's what creationists call non-coding DNA) has been known by evolutionists to have functions well over 30 years ago. Creationists still call it "junk."

And of course, there are many, many vestigial organs, such as the appendix. Please don't bother showing us the creationist misconception that "vestigial" means "useless." It can be so, but as Darwin noted, many vestigial organs have evolved new uses.

And then we have BELIEFS about our common Designer...

(Creationists demoted God to a "space alien" designer, because they are uncomfortable with a Creator capable of using nature to serve His purposes)

 

[DavisBJ]

True... Good post.

Come on, 6 days. Do you really think that the word "theory" in science is defined the way it is because of a desire to denigrate God? Please tell me you haven't stooped that low.

 

[Interplanner]

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." Deuteronomy 13:13-19


"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." Ezekiel 9:5-7


Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. Isaiah 13:15-18

The 2nd of these is a vision.
The 3rd is wrath against Israel. The prophet was saying that this is what would happen to Israel.

 

[DavisBJ]

We have knowledge of mutation rates, genetic drift, sexual selection, adaptation, so called "junk DNA, so called 'vestigial organs, 'Psuedogenes' and more.

Yes, and this knowledge came from A) Science, or B) Religious beliefs?

If it came via science, what would have happened if the scientists had not bothered to make these studies because they heeded the advice commonly given, “That’s just the way God made everything a few thousand years ago. Can’t you just trust God to know what he is doing?”

And then we have BELIEFS about our common Designer... or common ancestor.

In science, when two differing explanations for the same observations are on the table, the scientists try to think of ways to determine which explanation is most likely correct. Do you know of ways to differentiate between what would the evidence would show if the diversity of life came via evolution as opposed to simply being created?

 

[MichaelCadry]

Everything you say here Michael is a belief that is simply not supported by evidence. You want to believe it so you do and not because any evidence is leading you. Evolution otoh is the best natural explanation around for facts and evidence which I believe makes totally rational sense, not because I want to believe it.
Your assumptions of Jesus being involved in the writing of the four gospels is simply that, an assumption, nothing else.
Without evidence there is nothing to choose between any such religious beliefs, never mind any miraculous deeds which seems to be a requirement for any religious belief, not just Christianity.

Dear Alwight,

What makes you think that my evidence is not as good as yours? Many scholars and apostles, and even disciples, spent a lot of time putting all of their experiences pen to paper. They don't count because it happened 2,000 years ago, but I am supposed to believe that you have evidence that is 10,000 or 2 million years old and that's okay, eh? I love you dearly Al, but you are hardly being fair to me.

God Be With You!!

Michael

:guitar: :cheers: :bang: :cloud9: :angel: :thumb:

 

[patrick jane]

Dear Alwight,

What makes you think that my evidence is not as good as yours? Many scholars and apostles, and even disciples, spent a lot of time putting all of their experiences pen to paper. They don't count because it happened 2,000 years ago, but I am supposed to believe that you have evidence that is 10,000 or 2 million years old and that's okay, eh? I love you dearly Al, but you are hardly being fair to me.

God Be With You!!

Michael

:guitar: :cheers: :bang: :cloud9: :angel: :thumb:

good rebuttal - it's true - good post atrol:

 

[patrick jane]

I see that for you, the proof of the theory of evolution must be seeing one animal evolve into some dramatically different animal. I had hoped the discussion would be on a more honest level than this. A core tenet of evolution is that changes are small, and usually take a long time to embed themselves in a population. But you want it to all happen here and now. If I were equally disdainful of Christianity, I would simply demand that you chop someone’s arms or legs off, and then turn right around and use God’s healing power to restore them to full health in front of me, else I would not believe. But in fact, though I am not a believer, yet I choose not to employ such cheap theatrics to justify my unbelief. Sorry you don’t actually abide by the standards of conduct you espouse.

you're a believer, you just don't know it yet - atrol:

 

[MichaelCadry]

If science could explain evolution, would it not have already? Just a thought.
You are correct about one thing and that is that faith is a choice.

Dear Jerusha,

Thanks for your words of encouragement and wisdom. I do appreciate it.

Michael

 

[patrick jane]

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." Deuteronomy 13:13-19


"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." Ezekiel 9:5-7


Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. Isaiah 13:15-18

you're only bitter. it's bitterness of something, combined with your life experience and knowledge. you can't unknow what you know to be true.

for you and kadall, yes it seems harsh and unspeakable atrocities and horrors occurred in the name of God. jealosy and bitterness of a great nation have we ? i dunno, but the towns or cities that were (you say) COMPLETELY wiped out and the destruction of peoples and cities at God's hands may not seem loving and caring.

keep in mind satan and his minions threw a wrench in the system. once we decided to sin, maybe you think god should have hit the reset button ? he did with Noah, and now here we are. war and death and destruction happen no matter what. when it is God's Plan, then God's Will shall be done.

you can study until you're blue in the face about species and evolution or detailed science and astrophysics, and NOTHING can explain how everything became us and the universe that we see. Nothing but GOD. and Jesus Christ IS LORD And Savior, the Son Of God. your science and evolution will make more sense to you (cognitively) when Christ is In you - atrol:

 

[patrick jane]

simply put, the earth, sun, moon and everything being just right for life. just the right temperature, water, air, distances from moon and sun. all the intricacies of dna and LIFE in general. brains, hearts,and SPIRITUAL understanding. everything just happened ? not a chance in hell -

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Patrick Jane,

Both posts are quite timely!! You hit the nail right on the head. When there is war, there is bound to be some children killed, notwithstanding what was written here is such detail. But even when we bombed Nagasaki and Hiroshima, the infants still suffered in the same way as the adults. There is not an easy way to separate them. That's all I have to say right now.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I wouldn't call that hard evidence, but it is a very compelling firsthand account. Paul's sudden and dramatic conversion is one of those things that's difficult to explain away scientifically

Dear Kdall,

Yes, it is impossible to explain away. And it is written about clearly by those who lived 2,000 years ago. If we can believe something that is 3 billion years old, we can believe in something that is only a mere 2,000 years old. And we can believe in Moses some 5-6,000 years old also, or more, that his writings are truthful. We can go by word of mouth quite a ways back. They are cherished and true accounts by those who lived before us. The stories didn't end up in the Bible by chance. Only those immaculately selected were included. The rest were left out of the Bible. Do you see how many people have read the Bible. Do you see that it is the best-selling book of all time? For those who turn away from it, that is a real bummer, but to each their own. I'm not going to worry about it anymore. I've tried telling others because I wanted them to be saved and be in Heaven with me so we could spend time together. I guess that was a stupid pipe dream. It's just not going to happen, I suppose. Ah, c'est la vie!!

Michael

:guitar: :singer: :cheers: :bang: atrol: :cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

we aren't talking about atheists. we are talking about evidence for scientific theories

I previously posted a link regarding just what a scientific theory is. you really need to go read it.

you are incorrect. Evolution is one of the most tested and explored theories in science. I'm sure you don't like the fact that it is so and I'm sure you don't like the results but pretending that evidence doesn't exist won't make it go away.

Dear tracer,

I have to agree with Jerusha. Theism will prevail over atheism just as creationism shall prevail over evolution. See what happens with a couple years passing (or less). God won't let us down. He has kept quiet quite long enough now. It's time.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Everything you say here Michael is a belief that is simply not supported by evidence. You want to believe it so you do and not because any evidence is leading you. Evolution otoh is the best natural explanation around for facts and evidence which I believe makes totally rational sense, not because I want to believe it.
Your assumptions of Jesus being involved in the writing of the four gospels is simply that, an assumption, nothing else.
Without evidence there is nothing to choose between any such religious beliefs, never mind any miraculous deeds which seems to be a requirement for any religious belief, not just Christianity.

Dear alwight,

Year after year of painstaking written word doesn't amount as evidence to you? The Bible is the written word of what happened in the past, just like a science and history book. That's the science and history book I go by and it does me just fine indeed. I do not just believe by assumptions. You only 'think' that. It is evidence enough for me, but not for you. So that is the dilemma. That is it in a nutshell. My Bible was there before your science books.

What does 'blimey' mean?

Cheerio matey!!

Michael

:cheers: :guitar: :singer: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

In science evolution is the explanation for biodiversity. Your inability to understand the nuances here is not a problem of science. It is a psychological problem rooted in you.

No, the problem is with you, noguru. I asked God again tonight by a sign of rain {which I am allowed to do; see Rev:11:6KJV} whether He created man before man (our Adam) and He said No!! So, man is 6-7,000 years old and the rest is just the bling that God lets man believe, should he be so inclined and deceived. The devil brings many lies to men's heads and hearts. I suppose you don't see how the Greeks and Romans started believing in other gods before Jesus first came upon the Earth. And they saw 'flying chariots', quite similar to our 'flying saucers' now that we see before Jesus' second coming. Wise up, amigo! I'm not trying to agitate you here. I'm just trying to get a message through. Please don't take it any other way, noguru!! I do care very much for you and you know it. So don't let my choice of words get to you. PLEASE!!

May God Fill Your Heart With Laughter And Joy!!

Michael

:cheers: :guitar: :singer: :angrymob: :cloud9: :angel:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Hi MC, Pos-Rep for you.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear The Barbarian,

Sounds like quite a dilemma. Is evolution a theory or a law? You will find it to be a lie as time goes by here. You still have so many questions about evolution, like if it's true or not. Just because you want it to be true, you call it something else. It's a big joke to me. You can't see that God created each being by Himself and all of them in the direction of where His imagination would take Him. You think all of this just happened to be?? Fat Chance!! You're lying to yourselves and you are lying to others. That's not cool. It comes with a price. There is no evolution. Only God creating His World and Universe.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

What immense wrong is there is discussing a subject that has been already brought up in this thread before?

If you understood the philosophy of science, you would know that theories are not things that are proven. In science, for an idea to be termed as a theory is a significant distinction only awarded to ideas that have been shown to be particularly successful at explaining a diverse set of observations, and at making predictions which were then verified. The meaning of “theory” in science is not nearly as casual as in common usage outside of science.

As for you not witnessing any testable knowledge relating to evolution, your ignorance does not bode well for your credibility in science. In my library I have multiple thousands of articles replete with data dealing with tests in the field of evolution.

Feel free to wait for some day when the ephemeral details of creation are made known, just don’t expect science to halt it’s studies in the meantime.

The discussion is already underway in this thread. Whether or not you choose to participate is up to you.

Don’t mind at all. Include whatever ecclesiastical and scholarly help you want to enlist. I am interested in how you make the ordered killing of children into a Godly act.

Dear Davis,

Can't handle the wisdom and rebuttal? Jerusha, you are more than welcome to discuss anything you'd like to here, hon. Even some good dinner recipes. This thread is about Creation AND Evolution, and Whatever. That's what my thread is about. A meeting place where people of like interests can meet and discuss the important things in life. That is what this place is about.

Jerusha is quite a spitfire!! But don't all of you be ganging up on her just because she's new. Be fair.

Much Love That Comes From God Through Us!!

Michael

:cheers: :angrymob: :guitar: :singer: :angel: :cloud9: