Creation vs. Evolution

[patrick jane]

You can’t derail a huge thread that has very few posts dealing with what the thread title implies. Cadry (the thread originator) simply disses any aspect of evolution or the science behind it. As to creation (the other subject in the tread title), Cadry himself has had a huge revision in his own views on that subject since starting the thread. The thread has wandered into and out of (and into again) a number of subjects, so just go for it.

I have never said I wasn’t open to answers. My lack of belief stems partly from the paucity of answers to difficult issues in the Bible.

Just so we don’t needlessly spin our wheels here, I have read, more than once, the Bible from page one to page last. And I did not see anything that made it OK to order the slaughter of children. I am certainly open to hearing what you see in the Bible that you feel makes that acceptable.

for the record, if that matters, i can attest that davibj is right. i can verify his assertions for the 9 months i have been here. this threa IS permanantly de-railed, it's off the tracks and out in the woods somewhere. i brought this up before to Michael (founder). it's his thread and he enjoys all discussions, imo.

 

[patrick jane]

davis, what is your information from the Bible about killing babies

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear BJ,

Yes, you like to add loaded questions …

Sorry if asking about how you would act if placed in a situation described in the Old Testament is a loaded question.

BJ, those are people who are nuts. They are few and far between …

They are often recognized as nuts after they go off the deep end and kill or do some other despicable act. Before that point, however, they are seen as people who are fanatically devoted to their personal dogma and beliefs in God, not unlike someone who claims a long history of visitations by Christ and angels, and who has demonstrated a willingness to fairly radical changes in beliefs when the need arises (such as vacillating between old-earth and new-earth viewpoints, sudden alterations in diet because of perceived rules in the Bibles, and so forth).

God Change Your Heart And Mind,

Remember, you tried this once before? I prefer to keep my heart in my chest and my mind in my head, and don’t want anyone trying to revise that anatomical arrangement.

PS, rep pts received from my good buddy, thanks.

 

[DavisBJ]

… Paul's sudden and dramatic conversion is one of those things that's difficult to explain away scientifically

What the heck has Paul’s conversion got to do with science? You may have questions about what he was thinking, or the cultural context, or the historical background, but there is not much I can see in explaining that event that has anything to do with science.

 

[DavisBJ]

davis, what is your information from the Bible about killing babies

From I Samuel 15: “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants …”

 

[Kdall]

What the heck has Paul’s conversion got to do with science? You may have questions about what he was thinking, or the cultural context, or the historical background, but there is not much I can see in explaining that event that has anything to do with science.

That's precisely the point

 

[noguru]

If science could explain evolution, would it not have already? Just a thought.
You are correct about one thing and that is that faith is a choice.

In science evolution is the explanation for biodiversity. Your inability to understand the nuances here is not a problem of science. It is a psychological problem rooted in you.

 

[Interplanner]

From I Samuel 15: “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants …”

That would not be information about killing all babies, but about that tribe's fertility rituals which already included killing many of its babies, burning and drinking the ashes in a liquid.

 

[IMJerusha]

You can’t derail a huge thread that has very few posts dealing with what the thread title implies.

Actually, I can and Godly behavior requires I not add to the immense wrong already done.

Cadry (the thread originator) simply disses any aspect of evolution or the science behind it.

I have not witnessed any science (testable knowledge) in the proliferation of evolution. It is a theory, not a fact that has been proven.

As to creation (the other subject in the tread title), Cadry himself has had a huge revision in his own views on that subject since starting the thread.

Among believers there are numerous interpretations of Scripture regarding the Creation. TMPOV, believers should accept what is written plainly and look forward to the revelation of the details when our time on earth is done. We (believers) do have a tendency to want to argue the details but the truth is that none of us knows the whole of it.

The thread has wandered into and out of (and into again) a number of subjects, so just go for it.

Again, I do not wish to add my voice in disrespect to Michael. Courtesy isn't a matter of faith so I'm hoping you'll start a thread for discussion of your question.

I have never said I wasn’t open to answers. My lack of belief stems partly from the paucity of answers to difficult issues in the Bible.

Not to be insulting as that is never my intention but the truth is that Scripture contains the answers you seek. I would consider it an honor to be used of God to help you find as many answers as He Wills you to receive. I will, of course, be submitting your queries and Scripture's answers to my husband for approval prior to posting. I hope you don't mind that.

Just so we don’t needlessly spin our wheels here, I have read, more than once, the Bible from page one to page last. And I did not see anything that made it OK to order the slaughter of children. I am certainly open to hearing what you see in the Bible that you feel makes that acceptable.

Very good then, I will await your opening of a thread about it.

 

[alwight]

If science could explain evolution, would it not have already? Just a thought.

If you expect a QED or proof of Darwinian evolution then that simply won't happen. I happen to be persuaded sufficiently by the explanations we already have, but there is still room for conjecture about some of the details of course.

You are correct about one thing and that is that faith is a choice.

Not really, most people seem to be conditioned into following their own particular cultural beliefs, not exactly what I'd call a choice.
The only real question imo is whether having a supernatural faith is what you want/need in your life. There is only one Darwinian evolution but many religious beliefs to "choose" from. You can have both of course.
I don't think I could simply choose what I want to believe, it perhaps requires experience of life to fashion your thinking which imo has led many people up the garden path rather than to any truth.

 

[IMJerusha]

In science evolution is the explanation for biodiversity. Your inability to understand the nuances here is not a problem of science. It is a psychological problem rooted in you.

Truly? Then, by all means, bring forth the proof that the scientific community has been unable to for the purpose of dispensing with the word "theory" because until you can do that, you ride the theory bandwagon. It is my prayer you not do so all the way to eternity.

 

[Kdall]

Truly? Then, by all means, bring forth the proof that the scientific community has been unable to for the purpose of dispensing with the word "theory" because until you can do that, you ride the theory bandwagon. It is my prayer you not do so all the way to eternity.

Theory in science means something totally different. Gravity is only a theory, for example

 

[TracerBullet]

I have not witnessed any science (testable knowledge) in the proliferation of evolution.

then you haven't looked.

It is a theory, not a fact that has been proven.

Gravity is a theory
Disease caused by microscopic organisms is a theory
Plate tectonics is a theory
relativity is a theory
Genetic inheritance is a theory

 

[TracerBullet]

Truly? Then, by all means, bring forth the proof that the scientific community has been unable to for the purpose of dispensing with the word "theory" because until you can do that, you ride the theory bandwagon. It is my prayer you not do so all the way to eternity.

scientific theory

 

[IMJerusha]

If you expect a QED or proof of Darwinian evolution then that simply won't happen. I happen to be persuaded sufficiently by the explanations we already have, but there is still room for conjecture about some of the details of course.

Yes, actually, I do expect a QED. Don't you require that of God in order to believe in Him? What's the difference between your expectations and mine? As long as there are conjectures about the details, there is room for doubt.

Not really, most people seem to be conditioned into following their own particular cultural beliefs, not exactly what I'd call a choice.

Really? Weren't you raised in the faith? I seem to recall you telling me you were.

The only real question imo is whether having a supernatural faith is what you want/need in your life.

You know as well as I do that God doesn't call for a supernatural faith, just the faith of a child is sufficient.

There is only one Darwinian evolution but many religious beliefs to "choose" from. You can have both of course.

Ah, so it is a choice. Speak out of only one side of your mouth and you won't have these issues with confliction.

I don't think I could simply choose what I want to believe,...

And yet this is God's desire, that you simply choose this day.

...it perhaps requires experience of life to fashion your thinking which imo has led many people up the garden path rather than to any truth.

You're confused. It's not faith which leads one up the garden path but rather sin. In the Faith there will always be the challenge of sin to deal with. How can one grow in faith otherwise?

 

[DavisBJ]

That would not be information about killing all babies, but about that tribe's fertility rituals which already included killing many of its babies, burning and drinking the ashes in a liquid.

The command to the Hebrew warriors was “totally destroy … do not spare them, put to death…children and infants”. That has nothing to do with whether or not the tribe that was being attacked had pagan rituals that included killing babies.

 

[patrick jane]

From I Samuel 15: “Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants …”

are there any other references like that anywhere else in the Bible ? atrol:

 

[Kdall]

are there any other references like that anywhere else in the Bible ? atrol:

Maybe not for infants. But anyone who's read the Bible knows there's some pretty unspeakable atrocities in it

 

[The Barbarian]

I have not witnessed any science (testable knowledge) in the proliferation of evolution. It is a theory, not a fact that has been proven.

The evidence for evolution includes direct observation of it happening. But there is a huge and diverse body of evidence for it, including observed evolution, the nested hierarchy of taxa that only occurs in common descent, DNA data that can be tested on organisms of known descent, numerous transitionals in fossil records and in living taxa, and so on.

"Theory" is as strong as science can go. When a hypothesis has enough evidence that doubt becomes unreasonable, it is considered a theory. Theories are stronger than scientific laws. Laws predict things. Theories predict and explain.

"Theory" in, informal use, has been degraded to something like "a guess." In science, it retains it's original meaning. Newton, for example, wrote that gravitation was his theory. He wrote that, intending to emphasize that it was demonstrated to be true.

In fact, gravity is a weaker theory than evolution. We know why evolution works. We still aren't quite sure why gravity works.

 

[Kdall]

In fact, gravity is a weaker theory than evolution. We know why evolution works. We still aren't quite sure why gravity works.

True. It's one of the great mysteries of physics. If I'm not mistaken, physicists can't figure out why it isn't much stronger as a force