It was Jesus' perogative to forgive their deicide, which they did not know that they were committing. If He had not done so they would have been without hope. What sacrifice is sufficient to pay for the murder of God? There isn't one. Thus Jesus, as you said, unilaterally forgave that sin, which He had the full authority to do.
The answer is in the verse! "Seeing their faith..."
You won't be able to find a biblical teaching where there is forgiveness without repentance aside from the Luke 23 reference you already cited. If the bible does not teach repentance before forgiveness, it doesn't teach anything.
What do you suppose she was doing beside humbling herself before her creator?
My bet is that you misunderstand what repentance even means.
I've responded to your single sentence argument already. Any chance you'll be responding to my argument or do plan to just repeat the argument as though it hasn't been responded too?
Nope. God does NOT say that. He has said the reverse, multiple times and through multiple authors in both Testaments of the bible. It is one of the most consistent teaching in the entire bible. If you repent, you'll be forgiven. One sentence does not undo the entirety of the rest of the biblical material. What you are doing is proof-texting.
If you agree that it's implied then why bring this up?
Paul taught his followers to excommunicate believers who were unrepentant! (A verse I've already quoted, by the way. You'd do well to read the rest of my posts on the subject.)
That verse doesn't say forgiveness should be automatic! It teaches that you aught not be bitter, which I've already said, but it doesn't say one syllable about forgiving someone who isn't even sorry for the wrong they've done.
Of course you are! There would have been no point in responding to my post otherwise.
So says you. I've directly quoted several verses from multiple biblical sources, including Christ Himself, that say the reverse.
I am not taught to forgive the unrepentant! I'm taught by Paul not to even eat with an unrepentant person who calls himself a believer and commits sexual sin. I'm taught by Jesus Christ Himself to excommunicate the man who refuses to repent after going through a multi-step process trying to get him to repent.
Scripture doesn't teach that, no matter what you think. You only think it because your pastor taught it to you that way and he only believes it because his pastor did the same. The bible DOES NOT teach it - period.
As if the two concepts could be rationally separated. Just what is it that you think it means to be forgiven?
He suffered some of the consequences but not all and he was not forgiven sans repentance.
2 Samuel 12:13 “I have sinned against the Lord,” David said.
Nathan replied, “The Lord forgives you; you will not die.
[and elsewhere]
Satan is not the only one God will bring vengeance too on judgement day!
Paul teaches us the WE, you and I and all the rest of the believers in Christ, will judge the world and the angels themselves! How are you to judge those whom you've forgiven?
On judgment day, when that guy at your work who undercut you to gain undeserved advantage stands before you on judgment day, how would you respond if he pleads forgiveness based on your own words? You throw your forgiveness around like this isn't real, like its pretend and that there's no consequences to the words we speak, as though your forgiveness is meaningless except as a salve to your own emotional state of mind. You need to start practicing justice. Forgive those who repent and expect that those who do not will justly get what's coming to them in the end because it is Jesus who is the judge of all the Earth and forgiveness isn't free, it was bought at the price of His very life.
That's easy! I want justice. One way or the other. If that justice is met with the blood of Christ through the offenders faith in Him, then fine and dandy. If not, then the offender can and will pay his own debt. I prefer the latter, of course, but either way, justice is served and I'm happy as a clam.
Amen! Those who put their trust in Christ and believe that God raised Him from the dead (i.e. those who repent) are already forgiven by God for every sin. There are still issues to deal with having to do with both criminal justice and social stigmas which I've gone over in other posts but Paul quoted the verse you cite in Romans 4. Shortly after having said this...
Romans 3:7 For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just.
I really would like for you to explain to me just what you mean by forgiveness. I strongly suspect that you aren't even talking about the same thing. I suspect that what you're talking about is the sort of forgiveness where you merely decide not to dwell on the offense and let God deal with it so as to not give the offender the power to upset you and to give you an ulcer.
Lots of Christians make this error (for want of a better term). People who have had loved ones murdered or have otherwise been harmed by a criminal often say that they "forgive" the attacker but they still despise the person, want him convicted of the crime and punished without mercy. And they fully expect that the offender will get what's coming to them in the next life whether they ever see justice in this life or not. In short, they haven't actually forgiven anything except in the sense that they've moved on and left the matter in God's hands. If this is what you are talking about when you speak of forgiveness, then you should know two things. One, I agree that we should leave things in God's hands and in so far as it is up to us, we should be at piece with all men. Two, that is NOT what the bible is talking about when it discusses forgiveness.
Resting in Him,
Clete
