Among these 24 translations I would choose YLT... sometimes sounds awkward, and sometimes... too literal
- but it has the least amount of added theology... but Clete... if you state right away, "it won't change anything" I don't think there's a point...
You know there's no point because you know that the bible says in one translation, basically the same thing in any other.
You know what's fixing to happen but here goes nothing....
Here are all of the verses I have quoted in this thread to date, in the order in which I quoted them....
From post #30
Luke 17:3 `Take heed to yourselves, and, if thy brother may sin in regard to thee, rebuke him, and if he may reform, forgive him,
4 and if seven times in the day he may sin against thee, and seven times in the day may turn back to thee, saying, I reform; thou shalt forgive him.'
Matthew 18:21 Then Peter having come near to him, said, `Sir, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him -- till seven times?'
22 Jesus saith to him, `I do not say to thee till seven times, but till seventy times seven.
From post #91
Romans 12:19 not avenging yourselves, beloved, but give place to the wrath, for it hath been written, `Vengeance [is] Mine,
Hebrews 10:30 for we have known Him who is saying, `Vengeance [is] Mine, I will recompense, saith the Lord;' and again, `The Lord shall judge His people;' --
Psalms 37:30 The mouth of the righteous uttereth wisdom, And his tongue speaketh judgment.
Psalms 58:10 The righteous rejoiceth that he hath seen vengeance, His steps he washeth in the blood of the wicked.
Revelation 6:10 and they were crying with a great voice, saying, `Till when, O Master, the Holy and the True, dost Thou not judge and take vengeance of our blood from those dwelling upon the land?'
I Corinthians 5:9 I did write to you in the epistle, not to keep company with whoremongers --
10 and not certainly with the whoremongers of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, seeing ye ought then to go forth out of the world --
11 and now, I did write to you not to keep company with [him], if any one, being named a brother, may be a whoremonger, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner -- with such a one not even to eat together;
12 for what have I also those without to judge? those within do ye not judge?
13 and those without God doth judge; and put ye away the evil from among yourselves.
Romans 10:8 But what doth it say? `Nigh thee is the saying -- in thy mouth, and in thy heart:' that is, the saying of the faith, that we preach;
9 that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved,
10 for with the heart doth [one] believe to righteousness, and with the mouth is confession made to salvation;
11 for the Writing saith, `Every one who is believing on him shall not be ashamed,'
12 for there is no difference between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord of all [is] rich to all those calling upon Him,
13 for every one -- whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved.'
From post # 150
I Corinthians 5:Whoredom is actually heard of among you, and such whoredom as is not even named among the nations -- as that one hath the wife of the father! --
2 and ye are having been puffed up, and did not rather mourn, that he may be removed out of the midst of you who did this work,
3 for I indeed, as being absent as to the body, and present as to the spirit, have already judged, as being present, him who so wrought this thing:
4 in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ -- ye being gathered together, also my spirit -- with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 to deliver up such a one to the Adversary for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Now, as I predicted, the exact same argument (a purely BIBLICAL argument, I might add) is made with your favorite translation
AND
The text of scripture will once again prove insufficient to move your off your personal opinion about who should be forgiven and why.
Nothing changed.
You must have, even by choosing just that very passage. Without interpreting a verse you can't tell what it means. It would be great if all words meant the same thing to all people, but it's not happening.
Don't be stupid. Stupidity angers me rather quickly.
Words mean things and we can understand English when we read it. If a passage is allegorical or some form of figure of speech or symbolic in some way then interpretation in excess of a simple reading of the words is necessary but nothing I've quoted falls into any such category and if you think otherwise, as I stated before, it is up to you to demonstrate that the passage doesn't mean what it seems to mean and that your interpretation is superior than the plain reading of the text.
Now, all of that is third grade level stuff that you knew before you made this ridiculous point and made me waste my time explaining it to you. Don't go down this road any further.
Why couldn't God have just forgiven..? Perhaps He could have.
Do you not understand that this is blasphemy?
Can you seriously not see that you are presenting yourself as being wiser than God?
"Gee wiz, God! I sure wish you'd have asked me before you went and had your Son killed and all! I could have saved everyone so much pain and grief! That crucifixion was a complete waste of wood and nails!"
Why did Jesus have to die? I can't remember a verse literally saying He had to die. And the shortest answer to the questions, "Why did Jesus die?" is "because the Jews killed him."
Umm, no. That is not correct.
Going back now to the New King James....
The following are the words of Jesus...
John 10:17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This COMMAND I have received from My Father.”
It doesn't make sense to me, that He had to die in order to forgive sins. I think it's too early for me to make statements, I'm still looking, therefore... I started this thread.
Well, an honest search for answers is always commendable but you've got to allow the bible to answer these particular questions because no one would know anything about Jesus or Christianity at all if not for the bible. It is THE source for Christian doctrine. And what's more is that all you have to do is read it. You need to get away from whomever it is filling your head with all this garbage. Just read the bible! Just read it and take it for what it seems to be saying. You'll get it right more often than not. You don't need someone to tell you what the bible says or what to think about it. Just simply read it and allow yourself to believe what you read. Otherwise, you're wasting your time even asking such questions. Why bother asking questions about the biblical God if you're not going to allow the bible to answer them? It makes no sense!
Resting in Him,
Clete
