That's the biggest, most patently dishonest charade of interpretation I have ever seen.
To trade traditional belief for that obvious distortion is something to stay clear away from.
Contradictions In The Quran
- Thread starter CherubRam
- Start date
That's the biggest, most patently dishonest charade of interpretation I have ever seen.
To trade traditional belief for that obvious distortion is something to stay clear away from.
Apple7
New member
What 'made up truth' do you refer?
CherubRam
New member
You are a accident looking for a place to happen.
Worship only Yahwah
Deuteronomy 6:13
Fear( the Lord / Yahwah) your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name.
1 Samuel 7:3
So Samuel said to all the Israelites, If you are returning to (the Lord / Yahwah) with all your hearts, then rid yourselves of the foreign gods and the Ashtoreths and commit yourselves to (the Lord / Yahwah) and serve him only, and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines.
Matthew 4:10
(Jesus / Yahshua) said to him, Away from me, Satan! For it is written: Worship (the Lord / Yahwah) your God, and serve him only.
Luke 4:8
(Jesus / Yahshua) answered, It is written: Worship (the Lord / Yahwah) your God and serve him only.
John 5:41 I do not accept praise from men.
Different translations.
John 5:41 I don't need [or accept; receive] praise [glory; honor] from [men; people.]
I hear Christians say: I don't care who Yahwah is, I only want to worship Jesus. Christ did not come to be worshiped or praised, he came to direct worship and praise to the Father.
6days
New member
No..... Sorry, but someone has mislead you.
First of all..... Yes many people wrote things that they called gospel. You and I could also write a gospel....But, would our 'gospel' be God's Word? No
The 4 gospels were acknowledged very early by Christians, that these were indeed divinely inspired scripture. There are numerous reasons why these were included in the Bible....and other...and later so called gospels rejected.
But perhaps there is a more important reason why your argument is illogical. At the time the Qu'ran was wrote, it acknowleged the Injil, Torah and Psalms were provided by Allah and given step by step. What Injil do you think the Qu'ran is referring to? We have the same Bibles today as existed when Mohammad walked the earth. So... If the Qu'ran praises the Injil as being Allahs word, then surely the great Muslim libraries in Europe must have copies of Allahs uncorrupted Injil? They must have the Injil that Mohammad praised?
No.... They don't because Muslim scholars now realize that the Injil that Mohammad praised is contradictory to the Qu'ran.
So, Muslims reject their own Qu'ran in what it says about the Bible.
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egyptianmuslim
New member
Good post.
What is the meaning of Luke 1:3
6days
New member
Perhaps... I assumed that JW.org was an extension of the watchtower. BeDuhn is certainly promoted by many JW's as an authority.KingdomRose said:
Your trust in the anonomous translators.... is noted.KingdomRose said:
You slightly misrepresented what I said. I had said "BeDuhn is not a scholar of Greek. He does not have his doctorate in languages, but in comparitive religion."KingdomRose said:
My son in law also knows Greek and has a PhD in religion. That hardly qualifies him as a Greek scholar. Nor does it mean he is necessarily capable of critical comparitive analysis of texts from those who are Greek scholars.
KingdomRose said:
Hmmmmmmm.....I suspect various denominations have contributed towards various translations, That is quite different that the NWT...a paraphrase / translation made to fit a doctrine... and all by anonymous 'translators'.
Yes, the NWT translation committee is biased, and they know that "Jehovah" appears at least in the quotations from the Old Testament. That is reasonable, because Jehovah's name does appear in the O.T., so to include his name in the quote seems legitimate.
KingdomRose said:
That isn't the argument. The argument is that the JW Bible inserted a word to help lend credibility to their beliefs.
KingdomRose said:
Again..... That is a little dishonest. Even the JW Bible dioes not say Jesus is the "first OF creations". What it really calls Him is the first born... which is a title as explained here...
"The Jehovah's Witnesses interpret the word "firstborn" here to mean "first created" because it is consistent with their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing. Of course, Jesus, the Word become flesh (John 1:1, 14) is not a created thing but that hasn't stopped the Watchtower organization from claiming He is. Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn" and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used here.
Second, the Biblical use of the word "firstborn" is most interesting. It can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born," (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.
Third, firstborn is also a title that is transferable:
•Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction."
•Jer. 31:9, " . . . for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn."
Scripture best interprets Scripture. Firstborn does not require a meaning of first created as the Jehovah's Witnesses say it means here. "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family, and it can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable. That is obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14) and is also the first born son of Mary. In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all things. The Jehovah's Witnesses should consider this when they examine Col. 1:15. They should also abandon the Watchtower which guides them in their thinking and believing"
CARM.
KingdomRose said:
If for any reason I questioned that translation I could compare to many other translations of whom we know the translation team members and their credentials.. The example I provided you from the JW Bible is clearly different. A word was inserted to fit JW doctrine, Comparing to all other major ttanslations... NONE added the word to change the meaning.
For the record.....
New International Version
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
New Living Translation
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart. He has revealed God to us.
English Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
Berean Study Bible
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father's side, has made Him known.
Berean Literal Bible
No one has ever yet seen God. The only begotten God, the One being in the bosom of the Father, He has made Him known.
New American Standard Bible
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
King James Bible
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son-- the One who is at the Father's side-- He has revealed Him.
International Standard Version
No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.
NET Bible
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known.
New American Standard 1977
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Jubilee Bible 2000
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
King James 2000 Bible
No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
American King James Version
No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
American Standard Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him .
Douay-Rheims Bible
No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Darby Bible Translation
No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, *he* hath declared [him].
English Revised Version
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Webster's Bible Translation
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Weymouth New Testament
No human eye has ever seen God: the only Son, who is in the Father's bosom--He has made Him known.
World English Bible
No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.
Young's Literal Translation
God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father -- he did declare.
egyptianmuslim
New member
Luke 1:3 means that Gospel of Luke is a human work and not revealed from God to Luke.
There are one Torah and one psalm but there are many Gospels . The story of Jesus birth is different in Quran 1- the birth was beside a palm tree 2- Jesus talked to his mother just after his birth to support her 3- Jesus as a newborn told the folk that God Who sent him " to defend his virgin mother."
1- And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."
[Quran 19 : 23 ]
2- But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.
[Quran 19 : 24 ]
3- Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.
[Quran 19 : 27 ] O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."
[Quran 19 : 28 ] So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"
[Quran 19 : 29 ] [Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.
[Quran 19 : 30 ] And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive
[Quran 19 : 31 ] And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.
[Quran 19 : 32 ] And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."
[Quran 19 : 33 ]
musterion
Well-known member
You are still in your sin until you drop the false prophet who can't save you and trust in Christ's death, burial and resurrection for your sin and justification. Until then, you remain separated from the one true God (who is not "Allah"). Change your mind while you can.
6days
New member
egyptianmuslim said:
You seemed to avoid the question I asked you..... but first a couple corrections on your statement.*
A)Yes...there is one Torah, comprised of several books. Also the one Injil / Gospel is composed of several books.*
B) Luke 1:3 All scripture is written by men, and divinely inspured by God.*
The question I asked....
The Qu'ran tells you that the Injil is Allah's Word and was not corrupted or changed at the time of Mohammad. So, surely the great Muslim libraries in Europe have preserved copies of the Injil? Otherwise..... your claims that the Injil has been changed are false and contradict what the Qu'ran tells you.*
egyptianmuslim
New member
6days i don't avoid your q at all , but we muslims know Injeel as the words coming from the mouth of Jesus , because there are many Gospels contain details that do not related to the religion/faith, it is easly for muslims to know the word of God inside the Book , you Christians chose four Books but we muslims should not follow you blindly.. as you have the chance to choose the words of God give us the chance to know it from all Books about life of Jesus. Read with me:
And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.
[Quran 5 : 47 ]
It tells the people of Gospel to judge by what God revealed in it"because it contains other details"
Conclusion : Al Enjeel= words of Jesus inside Gospels all of them and it is easy to know it from the details of the Book, for example:
There is a Gospel may called Gospel of infancy tells the same story that I told before about birth of Jesus we muslims accept it but not the other that of you.
And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.
[Quran 5 : 47 ]
It tells the people of Gospel to judge by what God revealed in it"because it contains other details"
Conclusion : Al Enjeel= words of Jesus inside Gospels all of them and it is easy to know it from the details of the Book, for example:
There is a Gospel may called Gospel of infancy tells the same story that I told before about birth of Jesus we muslims accept it but not the other that of you.
egyptianmuslim
New member
6days, to understand me i'll give you an islamic example, there are two important books in islam:
1- Quran "God words" was written as soon as it revealed to Muhammed
2- Hadith "Muhammed talks"
Books of Hadith was written 100 yrs or more after death of Muhammed . Originally there were more than 300 000 Hadithes but the researchers selected only 10 000 Hadith/talks of Muhammed from the 300 000 ie 1/30 any of them must not contradict Quran because Quran is Muslim's guide and standard.
Books of Hadith is a human work it is logical that not all the 10 000 are true and not all the other 290 000 are false
1- Quran "God words" was written as soon as it revealed to Muhammed
2- Hadith "Muhammed talks"
Books of Hadith was written 100 yrs or more after death of Muhammed . Originally there were more than 300 000 Hadithes but the researchers selected only 10 000 Hadith/talks of Muhammed from the 300 000 ie 1/30 any of them must not contradict Quran because Quran is Muslim's guide and standard.
Books of Hadith is a human work it is logical that not all the 10 000 are true and not all the other 290 000 are false
Apple7
New member
Did you know that the word 'injeel' means 'Salvation through Jesus Christ'?
Apple7
New member
The Koran NEVER claims to be 'Gods words'.
The Koran never claims to have been revealed to anyone name 'Muhammad'.
Stop your lies.
egyptianmuslim
New member
Stop your ignorance of Arabic, Quran, and Islam. lt is great sin to lie in religion.
Apple7
New member
Let's expose your lies..
Where in all of the Koran is anything like the following written…?
“I, Muhammad, wrote this here Koran”
Or…
“I, Muhammad, dictated this here Koran”
Or…
“I, Muhammad, was inspired by an angel”
Or…
“I, Muhammad, was divinely inspired”
egyptianmuslim
New member
And with the truth We have sent the Qur'an down, and with the truth it has descended. And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a bringer of good tidings and a warner.
[Quran 17 : 105 ]
And indeed, the Qur'an is the revelation of the Lord of the worlds.
[Quran 26 : 192 ] The Trustworthy Spirit has brought it down
[Quran 26 : 193 ] Upon your heart, [O Muhammad] - that you may be of the warners -
[Quran 26 : 194 ]
CherubRam
New member
Associating Christ with occult signs is not good.
CherubRam
New member
The Quran was not sent from heaven. It was written long after Mohammad died.
CherubRam
New member
Bump