Contradictions In The Quran

[egyptianmuslim]

If your god 'allah' has to sit down after creating, then he must be tired.

Either that, or your Koran contradicts itself...






That just shows that the earth is rotating upon its axis....and the accuracy of the Biblical narrative.

Many time you prove that you don't know Quran or Islam.... it is more better to ask, does God has a skeleton and joints to sit or to stand?

 

[Apple7]

Many time you prove that you don't know Quran or Islam.... it is more better to ask, does God has a skeleton and joints to sit or to stand?

Obey your Koran...


فصل لربك وانحر

Fasalli lirabbika wainhar

108.2 So you pray to your Lord and Sacrifice.

 

[egyptianmuslim]

But doesn't the Quran say that Jesus is an important prophet, but Mohammed is more important because he came after Jesus? And I don't understand why Jesus is even considered an important prophet to you if you think he was lying. Wouldn't that make him anathema to any God-fearing person? He said that he was the ONLY mediator between God and men, and that no one can get to God except through HIM. (John 14:6; ITimothy 2:5) But you don't agree, am I right?

Quran doesn't say that Muhammed is above Jesus . But Quran is our 1st referencer and Bible is the second because Bible is mixture of God's words and human words.

Cherub..... you keep stating this but offer no evidence.
What has been mis-translated?
Evidence contradicts you. There are thousands of ancient manuscripts proving our modern translations are accurate. When there is any dispute at all about the ancient manuscripts, good study Bibles provide a footnote with explanations, saying that no doctrine should be built upon the verse or passage in question.

So again, I ask you..... what has been mis-translated?

"Muslim" is an Arabic word meaning: "One who submits" (to the faith.) From root of aslama "he resigned." Related to Islam.

The Arabic word "Islam" simply means "submit", and is derived from the word meaning "peace."

In a religious context it simply means submit to the will of Allah. And so Islam means “submit” not “peace". It is frequently said that the word Islam means “peace.” It does not. Islam is the Arabic word for "submit." The Arabic word for “peace” is transliterated as salam or salaam.

In Arabic, as in English, these are distinctly different words.

It is unfortunate that people are unable to get it through their head that, Allah was never the God of Abraham. Allah is the short form of the name Alilah, a Pagan god.

Mohammad did not know the personal name of God, so he used the name of a Pagan god. Alilah = Al/il/ah.

Alilah means: "The god ascends." A name for "the rising sun." The Arabs did not know the name of God at that time, because the God of Abraham was cursed by the Arabs, and the name of God was not to ever be spoken. The Arabs cursed the God of Abraham, because Yahwah would not curse the Jews for the Arabs.

 

[Apple7]

Quran doesn't say that Muhammed is above Jesus .

Correct.

The Koran says that Muhammad IS Jesus!

But Quran is our 1st referencer and Bible is the second because Bible is mixture of God's words and human words.

The Koran states just the opposite.

 

[egyptianmuslim]

It never ceases to amaze me at how completely and utterly ignorant you followers of islam are with regards to your Koran.

The very word 'injil' is an Arabicized word from the Greek word 'Gospel'.

As such, it MUST impart the same original meaning as 'Gospel'...of which, means 'Salvation through Jesus Christ!'

It mean good news. God sent Jesus to guide jews and to reform Moses laws to be more easier ie permision of many fobidden things.

And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.
[Quran 3 : 50 ]

Let’s review Rev 3.14…


και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

Kai tō angelō tēs en laodikeia ekklēsias grapson tade legei o amēn o martus o pistos kai o alēthinos ē archē tēs ktiseōs tou theou

Rev 3.14 And to the angel in the Laodicea assembly, write: This says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the origin, the creation, the God:


Concentrating on what you have previously highlighted as ‘support’ for your Jehovah Witness stance, you seem to want to diminish Jesus’ deity by interpreting an English translation to mean that He was created.

First, Jesus is the one being directly quoted (tade legei) and His epithets are listed appropriately. Jesus is not applying these epithets to anyone else – as they are applied solely to Him, alone – same as He applies them to Himself all through Revelation chapters 2 & 3.




και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

In seven out of seven sequential verses, the formula ‘tade legei’ (demonstrative accusative; indicative verb) precedes the nominative singular masculine article ‘o’.

This translates into what is being stated by the epithets listed after the formula.

This means that listed epithets belong to Jesus – they do not represent separate entities.

The trend in all of these epithets points to Jesus’ deity not to Him being created.

Further, each address to the assemblies initiates with Jesus’ words, and then concludes with stating that the Spirit is the one who has just addressed them – thus, confirming the Trinity.

Secondly, this verse mandates that Jesus was never created and that He is the singular, nominative archē (i.e. the origin; the active cause), of the singular genitive creation, and the singular genitive God.

Jesus is God.

All things came into being through Jesus.

Thirdly, confirming that Jesus is the creator and not the creation, we have the following…


Peter to the Jews

ο θεος αβρααμ και ισαακ και ιακωβ ο θεος των πατερων ημων εδοξασεν τον παιδα αυτου ιησουν ον υμεις μεν παρεδωκατε και ηρνησασθε κατα προσωπον πιλατου κριναντος εκεινου απολυειν υμεις δε τον αγιον και δικαιον ηρνησασθε και ητησασθε ανδρα φονεα χαρισθηναι υμιν τον δε αρχηγον της ζωης απεκτεινατε ον ο θεος ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων ου ημεις μαρτυρες εσμεν

ho theos abraam kai isaak kai iakōb ho theos tōn paterōn ēmōn edoxasen ton paida autou iēsoun on umeis men paredōkate kai ērnēsasthe kata prosōpon pilatou krinantos ekeinou apoluein umeis de ton agion kai dikaion ērnēsasthe kai ētēsasthe andra phonea charisthēnai umin ton de archēgon tēs zōēs apekteinate on ho theos ēgeiren ek nekrōn ou ēmeis martures esmen

The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob," "the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decided to set Him free. But you denied the Holy and Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And the Originator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Acts 3.13 -15)


Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejected and killed the ‘Originator of Life’ (de archēgon tēs zōēs), Jesus.

Here we can see the contrast that is being made as the Jews chose the release of a murderer(death) over that of Jesus Christ (the very originator of Life).

 

[KingdomRose]

Let’s review Rev 3.14…


και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

Kai tō angelō tēs en laodikeia ekklēsias grapson tade legei o amēn o martus o pistos kai o alēthinos ē archē tēs ktiseōs tou theou

Rev 3.14 And to the angel in the Laodicea assembly, write: This says the Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the origin, the creation, the God:


Concentrating on what you have previously highlighted as ‘support’ for your Jehovah Witness stance, you seem to want to diminish Jesus’ deity by interpreting an English translation to mean that He was created.

First, Jesus is the one being directly quoted (tade legei) and His epithets are listed appropriately. Jesus is not applying these epithets to anyone else – as they are applied solely to Him, alone – same as He applies them to Himself all through Revelation chapters 2 & 3.




και τω αγγελω της εν λαοδικεια εκκλησιας γραψον ταδε λεγει ο αμην ο μαρτυς ο πιστος και [ο] αληθινος η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου

In seven out of seven sequential verses, the formula ‘tade legei’ (demonstrative accusative; indicative verb) precedes the nominative singular masculine article ‘o’.

This translates into what is being stated by the epithets listed after the formula.

This means that listed epithets belong to Jesus – they do not represent separate entities.

The trend in all of these epithets points to Jesus’ deity not to Him being created.

Further, each address to the assemblies initiates with Jesus’ words, and then concludes with stating that the Spirit is the one who has just addressed them – thus, confirming the Trinity.

Secondly, this verse mandates that Jesus was never created and that He is the singular, nominative archē (i.e. the origin; the active cause), of the singular genitive creation, and the singular genitive God.

Jesus is God.

All things came into being through Jesus.

Thirdly, confirming that Jesus is the creator and not the creation, we have the following…


Peter to the Jews

ο θεος αβρααμ και ισαακ και ιακωβ ο θεος των πατερων ημων εδοξασεν τον παιδα αυτου ιησουν ον υμεις μεν παρεδωκατε και ηρνησασθε κατα προσωπον πιλατου κριναντος εκεινου απολυειν υμεις δε τον αγιον και δικαιον ηρνησασθε και ητησασθε ανδρα φονεα χαρισθηναι υμιν τον δε αρχηγον της ζωης απεκτεινατε ον ο θεος ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων ου ημεις μαρτυρες εσμεν

ho theos abraam kai isaak kai iakōb ho theos tōn paterōn ēmōn edoxasen ton paida autou iēsoun on umeis men paredōkate kai ērnēsasthe kata prosōpon pilatou krinantos ekeinou apoluein umeis de ton agion kai dikaion ērnēsasthe kai ētēsasthe andra phonea charisthēnai umin ton de archēgon tēs zōēs apekteinate on ho theos ēgeiren ek nekrōn ou ēmeis martures esmen

The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob," "the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom you delivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decided to set Him free. But you denied the Holy and Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And the Originator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Acts 3.13 -15)


Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejected and killed the ‘Originator of Life’ (de archēgon tēs zōēs), Jesus.

Here we can see the contrast that is being made as the Jews chose the release of a murderer(death) over that of Jesus Christ (the very originator of Life).

You jumped from one subject to another. I cited Revelation 3:12 to show that Jesus called Jehovah "MY GOD". You left that subject and went to another argument trying to say that I interpret Revelation 3:14 in an unacceptable manner.

Why did Jesus call Jehovah "my God" if Jesus is God?

What "epithets" are you referring to in your discussion of Rev.3:14?

Nothing "confirms the Trinity." In all of the verses you mention, none of them states what the RELATIONSHIP of the Holy Spirit is to the Father. It never says it is equal to Him. No verse states that the Father, Son and H.S. are equal.

Jesus is NOT God. Yes, all things were created THROUGH him. But the Source of all power and authority is the Father, Jehovah. Jehovah created THROUGH Jesus. (I Corinthians 8:5,6)

 

[KingdomRose]

Re. post #91, Apple7.....

Your post is rambling and confusing. I don't see the Trinity in what you quoted from the Quran.

 

[KingdomRose]

You may be correct about that verse. My Bible reads "And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.". I think you will find that other study Bibles which read "three witnesses" mention it is controversial in the footnotes and also say that doctrine should not be based on this verse.
I have checked him out before, and found him particularily biased although he claims he isn't.

Now..... Kingdom, I think all Christians would acknowledge we have translations, and that no translation is perfect. However, we can compare various translations against each other to help determine accuracy. We also can check the credentials of the various translation teams.

So... Would you agree that the NWT is an imperfect translation? (I would suggest its corrupted by church doctrine).
And... who are the translators?

Kingdom Rose..... Rather than being married to a religion, why not trust and receive the LORD JESUS CHRIST as your Savior, and become His Bride...so that you can have eternal life and go to heaven?

So BeDuhn is biased....because you don't agree with him. On the other hand, I find his arguments compelling.

I would not agree that the NWT is corrupted by church doctrine. You may have a point concerning the New Testament because Jehovah's name is placed whereever "God" is written, but other than that, I don't think it is corrupt at all.

The translators based their work on the conclusions of Westcott and Hort. I do not know the names of the people on the committee.

The "official Catholic Bible," the New American Bible, is also the product of a single Christian denomination...just as the NWT. Do you know the names of the NAB translation committee? Why is it that no one questions that version?

Probably because of this: "Because of its association with the Jehovah's Witnesses, the NWT is often readily pointed to as an example of a translation which must have a theological bias, unlike the supposedly objective, neutral, and scholarly Bible more widely used today. The attention to bias is heightened by the fact that the theology of the Jehovah's Witnesses does not correspond to that of the mainstream denominations. This difference creates a hostile atmosphere in which representatives of that mainstream theology charge that any variation in the NWT from more familiar translations must serve the ulterior motives of distorting the 'truth.' But the facts are that all of the translations considered in this book [around 10] are products of people with theological commitments, that all contain biased translations of one sort or another, and that the NWT deserves to be assessed for accuracy by the same standards applied to the others." (Truth in Translation, Jason BeDuhn, pp.38,39)

I have received Jesus Christ as my Savior and Friend, and as my King. I have no interest in going to heaven. The 144,000 that are going to heaven will rule with Jesus, and I would rather be guided and instructed BY them, right here on Earth. This is where I want to be.

Thank you for taking the time to actually read my post and think about it.

 

[Apple7]

You jumped from one subject to another. I cited Revelation 3:12 to show that Jesus called Jehovah "MY GOD". You left that subject and went to another argument trying to say that I interpret Revelation 3:14 in an unacceptable manner.

Why did Jesus call Jehovah "my God" if Jesus is God?

What "epithets" are you referring to in your discussion of Rev.3:14?

On the contrary, we can see that adding context utterly destroys your cherry-picked verse.

Nothing "confirms the Trinity." In all of the verses you mention, none of them states what the RELATIONSHIP of the Holy Spirit is to the Father. It never says it is equal to Him. No verse states that the Father, Son and H.S. are equal.

Even in Koranic Arabic, The Biblical Trinity holds true.

But....you don't know Arabic....just like you don't know Biblical Greek.

We already proved this point over and over with you...

Jesus is NOT God. Yes, all things were created THROUGH him. But the Source of all power and authority is the Father, Jehovah. Jehovah created THROUGH Jesus. (I Corinthians 8:5,6)

Jesus is Yahweh.

 

[KingdomRose]

There are many Injil and Christians who accepted four of them, we muslims accept the words of jesus in all Injils that don't contradict with Quran , making a mediator,s between God and His believers is a great sin in Islam , it is paganic-like belief

But is Mohammed not a "mediator" between Allah and men?

 

[Apple7]

Re. post #91, Apple7.....

Your post is rambling and confusing. I don't see the Trinity in what you quoted from the Quran.

Witness to us.

Show us that you even remotely understand Koranic Arabic.

Don't keep getting destroyed at the door step...

 

[KingdomRose]

Apple, about going of God to rest in the 7th day.....read:

And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness.
[Quran 50 : 38 ]
......

The day in Bible is related to planet/the earth because it contains morning and evening Genesis 1:5

Hey, 50,000 years is even closer to the truth!! Each "day" could've been millions of years!

 

[KingdomRose]

Quran doesn't say that Muhammed is above Jesus . But Quran is our 1st referencer and Bible is the second because Bible is mixture of God's words and human words.

Wait....wouldn't you say that the Quran is also a mixture of God's words and human words?

 

[Apple7]

 Bart Ehrman January 7, 2013
I don’t have an informed view of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, although it’s true that Arians believed that Jesus was God but not that he was equal with God the Father or co-eternal with him. John 1:1 — I think the proper translation is “The Word was God.” (In this Gospel Jesus appears to be equal with God — here I disagree with the Arian view — but he is not *identical* with God, a major point I think.)
http://ehrmanblog.org/my-next-book/

 

[KingdomRose]

On the contrary, we can see that adding context utterly destroys your cherry-picked verse.







Even in Koranic Arabic, The Biblical Trinity holds true.

But....you don't know Arabic....just like you don't know Biblical Greek.

We already proved this point over and over with you...







Jesus is Yahweh.

You say that Jesus is Jehovah just to get me going. No one who knows anything about the Bible would say that.

And my "cherry-picked" verse is not destroyed by your adding anything. It is very clear what it means. Jesus says that God is "MY GOD" several times in Rev.3:12. So he couldn't be God. God doesn't have anyone over him.

 

[KingdomRose]

Witness to us.

Show us that you even remotely understand Koranic Arabic.

Don't keep getting destroyed at the door step...

No one gets "destroyed at the doorstep." A householder either accepts the truth or he doesn't. We are looking for those who are "worthy of our message." (Matthew 10:11-14)

A person doesn't need to know Arabic or Greek to find the truth.

 

[Apple7]

You say that Jesus is Jehovah just to get me going. No one who knows anything about the Bible would say that.

Dr. Bart Ehrman does.

And my "cherry-picked" verse is not destroyed by your adding anything. It is very clear what it means. Jesus says that God is "MY GOD" several times in Rev.3:12. So he couldn't be God. God doesn't have anyone over him.

Context will forever destroy the one-liners from witnesses.

 

[egyptianmuslim]

But is Mohammed not a "mediator" between Allah and men?

Muhammed died

 

[Apple7]

No one gets "destroyed at the doorstep." A householder either accepts the truth or he doesn't. We are looking for those who are "worthy of our message." (Matthew 10:11-14)

Witnesses get owned all the time at the front door step.

That's why they are so desperate to 'convert' new blood into their cult...they must feverishly pound the pavement and doors....as they watch their membership dwindle...

A person doesn't need to know Arabic or Greek to find the truth.

You know neither...thus, you cannot possibly defend your faith when tested.

We have seen you fall numerous times.

You are just too obtuse to realize that witnesses are a defeated cult that preys on the ignorant.

 

[egyptianmuslim]

Hey, 50,000 years is even closer to the truth!! Each "day" could've been millions of years!

Day in Quran is unlimited period of time, the number above thousands ,like millions, was not known during revealing of Quran or Bible